2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[mpinco]

As previously noted consolidation is in the air. In addition JLR finances are a mess with refinancing of billions a near term issue. The new Defender is too late to see volume and revenue.

Peugeot eyes Jaguar Land Rover takeover
The Telegraph
By Alan Tovey, industry editor
9 MAY 2019 • 2:45PM

"Jaguar Land Rover's owner could sell some or all of the business to the French company behind Vauxhall and Peugeot, according to leaked papers.

A “post-sale integration document” identifying the benefits of a tie-up between Tata's JLR and PSA Groupe is circulating at high levels within the companies, according to sources............"

 

[JeepColorado]

It's an absolute shame that Land Rover is the keeper of the Defender legacy- this cross-over should pretty much put the final nail in the myth that Land Rover's are for off-roading. The MB G-Wagon and the Jeep Wrangler both have shown the way on how to keep a vehicle modern, but old-school cool and LR just couldn't resist one more opportunity to show how little they are committed to the very thing that made them great in the first place. Well, at least with Land Rover's history with reliability I'm sure they won't have any issues at all with all the new electronic off-roading gadgets this glorified Kia will have. To anyone considering buying one I'd say go ahead and save the number of a tow truck in your phone, but at least people who don't know any better will think you look cool at the Starbucks.

 

[DieselRanger]

It's an absolute shame that Land Rover is the keeper of the Defender legacy- this cross-over should pretty much put the final nail in the myth that Land Rover's are for off-roading. The MB G-Wagon and the Jeep Wrangler both have shown the way on how to keep a vehicle modern, but old-school cool and LR just couldn't resist one more opportunity to show how little they are committed to the very thing that made them great in the first place. Well, at least with Land Rover's history with reliability I'm sure they won't have any issues at all with all the new electronic off-roading gadgets this glorified Kia will have. To anyone considering buying one I'd say go ahead and save the number of a tow truck in your phone, but at least people who don't know any better will think you look cool at the Starbucks.

The reliability of my D5 is fantastic, and it goes places no JGC could ever go. The 2014 RRS even beat the Acura MDX and Audi Q7 in 3-year dependability - in its first year of a new generation. In fact, all the issues FCA has had with reliability have bled over into Jeep in the worst possible ways - debris in the bellhousings, leaky differentials, rippling dash leather, electrical faults, and now the diesel cheating they were just fined in the US for which will result in some cash to owners and - as we've seen with VW - post-fix performance disappointments despite manufacturer promises to the contrary. Jeep even has to deploy a marketing team to be members of jeepforum.com to address public complaints and try to keep people from piling on by diverting comments to PM, but they can't keep up with the volume. And then you have to deal with the terrible dealer network. I hope you bought the Mopar warranty on yours - but for most people they never need to worry, I see more shiny mall-crawler Jeeps with lifts and mudders than I ever see off-road in Colorado.

 

[kellymoe]

Diesel Ranger,
I wouldn't be so quick to knock Jeeps. Ive owned at least 10 different Land Rovers from Series 2a's, Range Rover Classic, D90 and my most recent a Defender 130 that I just sold after almost 18 years of owning it. I now have a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. While the Jeep has no soul it runs circles around every Land Rover I have ever owned. It doesn't leak, and I have only had to put gas in it and never had an issue with it. The same couldn't be said for the Rovers I have owned. I am still a big Rover fan and will surely get another in the future but I am under no illusion that they are better than any other vehicle, especially my Rubicon.

 

[Silmarillion]

It seems a little bit short. It doesn't look like a Kia Soul as much anymore!

 

[blackangie]

Rear shot

Ok a few things I have noticed.

Looks like to be a proper gutter mount.

Dual rear recovery points. (One previously shown)

Ridgeline throughout the whole car like the previous defender but slightly rounded

Front is still heavily wrapped ( more grill seen in previous pilot photos)

Red brakes (maybe for high performance onroad version)

Front lights are covered over, however from previous photos square lights have a circle within them.

Defender badge visible for the first time.

Roof seems to raise ever so slightly towards the rear.

Bonnet shape looks to have a similar style as previous defender with bonnet bulge and fender positioning towards front, however bonnet line goes back towards side of windscreen at back, interesting

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[REDROVER]

If there is one single person on the planet who has zero rights to talk ******** about another vehicles reliability is the owner of a Land Rover,
is that enough??
Starting from garbage classic Range Rover ( I unfortunately own one ) to the last new Land Rover are bad vehicles and unreliable,
And you sir bash on Jeep that is unlike your Land Rover is out on the trails having fun and keeping its resale value 10/1.

and now the ********** of automobiles is about to be sold again, because nobody wants it.

 

[blackangie]

about to be sold again, because nobody wants it.

How could it be sold if nobody wants it?

They are selling a huge amount of cars around the word, and its only going to increase with ipace, epace, velar, New defender + hybrid everything next year.

Lets not turn this thread into another which brand is best because we all know its LR .

This is about new defender news.



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[blackangie]

Some more pics for those interested in new defender news , 1st one is looking very gwagon/modern defender imo

Can see padding above ridgeline, huge flares, nice twin recovery points.

Second pic im liking the whole look.

3rd pic, shows how far body sticks out from window line.

Last one shows roof slope and bonnet bulge, Gutters look a little fake, but could be just them trying to conceal?

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[DieselRanger]

Diesel Ranger,
I wouldn't be so quick to knock Jeeps. Ive owned at least 10 different Land Rovers from Series 2a's, Range Rover Classic, D90 and my most recent a Defender 130 that I just sold after almost 18 years of owning it. I now have a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. While the Jeep has no soul it runs circles around every Land Rover I have ever owned. It doesn't leak, and I have only had to put gas in it and never had an issue with it. The same couldn't be said for the Rovers I have owned. I am still a big Rover fan and will surely get another in the future but I am under no illusion that they are better than any other vehicle, especially my Rubicon.

I did my homework before I bought the D5. I had almost two years waiting for my Touareg to be bought back. The rovers you have owned were of a different generation - they've fixed their problems. Complaints today revolve around infotainment, and even though mine is of the first production year, the only thing I've had to have done in over 25K miles so far is two software updates and a preemptive replacement of the air suspension filler valve nipples.

 

[TexasTJ]

I have had three Jeeps 98 4.0, 07 3.8, 12 3.6 and Three Rovers 97 300 TDI, 98 V8, 08 V8 and only one has every left me stranded. That would be the 08 Land Rover. They are all probably reliable enough. I think most people seem upset because the New Wrangler and the new G's look like Wranglers and G's. The new Defender looks nice, but it dose not look like a Defender. I don't think they should have fallowed jeeps line, but that could have fallowed what Mercedes did with the G and had the best of both worlds.

 

[blackangie]

I have had three Jeeps 98 4.0, 07 3.8, 12 3.6 and Three Rovers 97 300 TDI, 98 V8, 08 V8 and only one has every left me stranded. That would be the 08 Land Rover. They are all probably reliable enough. I think most people seem upset because the New Wrangler and the new G's look like Wranglers and G's. The new Defender looks nice, but it dose not look like a Defender. I don't think they should have fallowed jeeps line, but that could have fallowed what Mercedes did with the G and had the best of both worlds.

Speaking of the G, this looks like a good looking gwagon/modern defender from this angle. And its probably on it lowest setting.

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[mpinco]

OK, the Jeep vs Land Rover has morphed into a religious war. Both are good vehicles, reliability of both is better than 20/30 years ago and both address a market for their products. The entire automotive market is struggling as power trains transition, technology becomes the latest fad and significant amounts of money must be spent to develop product. Jeep sales volumes are down 4 months in a row, so are JLR's. The talk of the Geneva auto show was consolidation and that wasn't just Land Rover and PSA. Why consolidation? To combine forces to get through to the next generation vehicle. In addition there are now hundreds of startups that view the current turmoil as a discontinuity in the industry as an opportunity to make an entrance. Over 90% of them will be gone in 5 years and their technology licensed or bought by a manufacturer of scale. In addition technology commoditizes/normalizes features reducing the perceived difference between manufacturers products. Similar to smartphones and their latest volume trajectory (fewer sales)

As for Land Rover the PSA rumors are back and forth but are consistent with the Geneva auto show chatter for every manufacturer. JLR needs cash so maybe a partnership is in the wings. What complicates issues for JLR is the short term debt/cash needs and that they are NOT selling huge amounts of product. Outside NA (heavy marketing push) the volumes are subdued to double digit declines while the D5 is selling poorly and the Defender is late. The plan to create 3 product lines - Defender, Discovery, Range Rover - is not working out so well as 2 of the product lines, Defender and Discovery 5, are generating zero to little revenue. I still expect a model to be axed. The Evoque is doing well, the Velar not so much.

In summary it is a tumultuous period for all, not just JLR.

 

[tacr2man]

If thats the new "Defender" then its not going to do much for JLR , as its just going to bleed sales from Discovery and their other models not re-enter the "Defender" market sector , for overland , farm , commercial , its another suv clone . ?

 

[mpinco]

If thats the new "Defender" then its not going to do much for JLR , as its just going to bleed sales from Discovery and their other models not re-enter the "Defender" market sector , for overland , farm , commercial , its another suv clone . ?

I'll agree that the latest unveiling of the Defender looks more like a SUV than a product targeting overland/farm/commercial segment. The D6 will need to move even further into the SUV/Van market or lack of differentiation will eventually collapse the 3 product line strategy. Land Rover needs a truck, not another SUV. Currently all LR's look the same and only differ in size and the ever commoditized technology.