End of the world

[R_Lefebvre]

You do realize that your only true Land Rover actually sits on a Jeep chassis...

Oh, absolutely!

It all went downhill once Land Rover started making their own chassis! :snorkel: Nothing else out there has as much charm as that thing. Just look at all the thought they put into it. Those rubber bumper things on the hood so that you can rest it up against the windscreen. The thoughtfull footstep build just under the door. Or the handle they give you to help pull yourself out from underneath it.

The Series 1 just does not have nearly as much charm. And they added all this complexity. Rear view mirrors, a second windscreen wiper... Mass produced piece of junk. :coffeedrink:

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Hey, Rob:

I wanted to clarify that in no way was I implying that the Series II Discos are junk or in any way sub-par. I just feel like everything got complicated with electronics and such when they got to the P-38. (If seen too many of them try to ford a shallow stream or river and fry the entire system!)

Ironically, one of the trucks I do admire is the 2004 Disco. I think they had just about gotten all the bugs worked out on the Series II Discos that year ... and then they abandoned the styling.

D

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Oh, I know. I'm achieving a Zen with the leafer snobs and just having fun with it now. I certainly haven't had any trouble with my electrics yet, and I've spend a lot of time in the water. It's unaviodable up here. You can't get anywhere without having water over the bumper.

 

[JSBriggs]

Here's an idea: Please give us a kit car version of the Defender 90/110. Then we can build one in our garage and then licensing it as a kit car.

CKD?

-Jeff

 

[discotdi]

I can't believe how many people that drive LR's and are supposedly fans of the brand drone on and on and on and on about the impending death of the very brand they profess to love. I have owned everything from Series 3's to the new sport and Lr3 and they all have merit and are great vehicles that give one more pleasure than the ordinary cookie cutter vehicles for sale by Toy,. Nissan etc.
The current Land rovers are amazing on road and off road vehicles that can out perform any other off the shelf 4x4.
Land Rover is still true to its 4x4 heritage but it must stay relevant and sell cars that people want. LR is not going anywhere. And if the Defender comes back on the LR3/D3 platform I will be happy. The LR3/D3 platform is the most robust chassis LR has ever built. You don't have to get it with air susp. and terrain response. They are sold in the UK and elsewhere with good ole coil springs etc.
Land Rovers are like dogs, there are no bad Rovers just bad owners.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I can't believe how many people that drive LR's and are supposedly fans of the brand drone on and on and on and on about the impending death of the very brand they profess to love. I have owned everything from Series 3's to the new sport and Lr3 and they all have merit and are great vehicles that give one more pleasure than the ordinary cookie cutter vehicles for sale by Toy,. Nissan etc.
The current Land rovers are amazing on road and off road vehicles that can out perform any other off the shelf 4x4.
Land Rover is still true to its 4x4 heritage but it must stay relevant and sell cars that people want. LR is not going anywhere. And if the Defender comes back on the LR3/D3 platform I will be happy. The LR3/D3 platform is the most robust chassis LR has ever built. You don't have to get it with air susp. and terrain response. They are sold in the UK and elsewhere with good ole coil springs etc.
Land Rovers are like dogs, there are no bad Rovers just bad owners.

I am not sure I can agree with you on those statements regarding the current lot of trucks. We own a 2006 HSE Rangie and yes, ... it is the crem-de-la-crem of trucks, but it might as well be a lexus or land cruiser. Heck it was a $75K truck and I have a friend that drives a 40K+ Ford Expedition that is as nicely appointed as the Rangie (heck his truck has air-conditioned seats ... and the Range Rover doesn't).

I doubt you will see this type of chassis failure ( http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25600 ) on a 95 Classic.

What I can agree with is that we had an LR3 ... and it is an amazing truck off road. That truck would do stuff that trucks with 20K worth of modifications couldn't do!

I don't think there is an impending death, but I think the marque is moving away from the very lifestyle that made the trucks what they are.

Heck ... Land Rover corporate wants all the Land Rover sales Centres to remove all the cool camping gear, canoes, etc, and go with slick grey walls and floors. They want all the Sales Guides to quit wearing outdoor wear ... and start wearing dress clothes.
This flies in the face of the spirit that made the brand great.

It is typical of putting folks in charge that have no clue what the heritage of the brand is about.

That is my only concern.

But I digress. Carry on.

Dendy

 

[Alaska Mike]

I can't believe how many people that drive LR's and are supposedly fans of the brand drone on and on and on and on about the impending death of the very brand they profess to love. I have owned everything from Series 3's to the new sport and Lr3 and they all have merit and are great vehicles that give one more pleasure than the ordinary cookie cutter vehicles for sale by Toy,. Nissan etc.
The current Land rovers are amazing on road and off road vehicles that can out perform any other off the shelf 4x4.
Land Rover is still true to its 4x4 heritage but it must stay relevant and sell cars that people want. LR is not going anywhere. And if the Defender comes back on the LR3/D3 platform I will be happy. The LR3/D3 platform is the most robust chassis LR has ever built. You don't have to get it with air susp. and terrain response. They are sold in the UK and elsewhere with good ole coil springs etc.
Land Rovers are like dogs, there are no bad Rovers just bad owners.

If we could get what much of the rest of the world has available to them, I might agree. However, what is currently marketed in Morth America just doesn't seem viable in an economic downturn. The gas prices of last year and the current economic downturn have changed priorities for many people when it comes to new car purchases. Can you honestly say that Land Rover has a lineup that can be competitive in this market (North America)?

Land Rover is too established as an international marque to go under, but I just can't see how they will survive here given their business model.

Their products are incredible performers, but here they are rarely used to their potential. They're just too expensive to obtain and maintain for that- at least until the used market has taken a big chunk out of their resale value and parts have become more available from aftermarket and used vendors.

A couple months ago I saw a big convoy of Land Rovers heading south on the Seward Highway. LR3s, Range Rovers, and some Discos. I figured it was a new owner clinic, and they were going to go play in the snow somewhere to teach the owners how to use their vehicles. Nope, I found out from the dealer that it was an organized trip to drive down the highway to have dinner at a somewhat upscale restaurant. Talk about a disappointment.

Tell you what- compare the Jeep and Land Rover NA home pages and see what image they're selling. Then compare the Land Rover website with another upscale SUV brand, say Lincoln. Is there really anything in that image that sets the Land Rover apart?

That's why I say it doesn't look good for Land Rover NA. They've lost the only real asset- their image.

 

[Antichrist]

The LR3/D3 platform is the most robust chassis LR has ever built.

Too funny!
:xxrotflma

I think the marque is moving away from the very lifestyle that made the trucks what they are.

That's the problem, L/R is focusing on marketing a certain lifestyle, rather than making sure they build at least one vehicle that the company was founded on. The Series/90-110/Defender lines were built around a desired functionality. A field repairable easily customized work platform. Today the Land Rover attitude seems to be to present an image, and if they can keep some functionality in the car too, well, cool.
Just look at the optional equipment catalog of today vs. the optional equipment catalog of the 80's.

 

[Mike_rupp]

The LR3/D3 platform is the most robust chassis LR has ever built.

In light of Michael Groves' and Alaska Mike's recent comments in the LR3 help thread regarding presenting facts without reasoning and using subjective terms like "best", shouldn't you at least present some reasoning to back up that claim and /or modify that statement?

Maybe another way of approaching that subject would have been to write: "the LR3 / D3 platform is a robust chassis". When you use the term best, you risk offending others. There are no absolutes. Everything is relative.

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[Alaska Mike]

s

inflamatory posts like this are just designed to create flame sessions and disrupt the forum. If you dont have anything nice to say some times its better to say nothing at all.

Oh wait scratch that I agree with you...LOL

Oh, you're bad.

I did say "Their products are incredible performers..."

Not bashing the platform, just the manner in which it's marketed. I know the Anchorage dealership just recently dodged a bullet, so they're going to be staying open for a while longer. How many other dealerships are considering their options?

 

[proper4wd]

I think you will see Land Rover return to the distribution strategy they used a decade ago: small, specialized dealerships spread apart from one another geographically. I know that in my area, there are 6 Land Rover dealerships within an hour drive. 10 years ago, there was 1. I know from personal experience that sales at each of the dealerships are hurting; but are total sales in the region? No. Land Rover, until the recent economic downturn, has posted record sales numbers. They must be doing something right, in the eyes of consumers.

A consolodation of retail centers will alleviate many of the problems the brand faces today. So many dealers in such a small geographic area proliferates pricing wars, cannibalistic competition, and unhealthy rivalries. When I worked in the sales department at a dealership, I grew to hate the sales departments at the other regional dealers. They hated us in return.

Years ago, Land Rover "Centres" were destinations. People would travel from far and wide to come see the vehicles, the dealer, and the "experience". This quality has been lost with the current marketing strategy.

I think that the headline about the Defender being built on an LR3 platform does not signify a total departure from the company's roots, but rather a specialization and "honing" of different vehicles for different international markets. We have seen this from Toyota consistently; the FJ Cruiser and Tacoma are built for the North American market on a modified 4runner platform. Land Cruisers and Hiluxes elsewhere retain the brand's utilitarian integrity.

In my opinion, what you will see is a limited production (comparatively) rendition of the "Defender" marketed in North America and built on the LR3 platform. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the ROW Defender is still available globally and will remain so. It would not surprise me to see production of the ROW Defender shift to India to save costs.

In the United States, Land Rover will become a boutique brand similar to Porsche or, on a more expensive scale, Bentley. You will see small destination dealerships co-marketed with Jaguar (who is also trying to move further upmarket).

Land Rover ceases to exist as a utilitarian brand in the United States. The next 10 years will show the company becoming, to SUVs, what Bentley is to cars. Small production, extremely high quality, low volume, specialized SUVs. The ROW Defender will never be sold here, with us instead receiving a very high-market FJ Cruiser type vehicle wearing the Defender nametag.

 

[discotdi]

Land Rover did lose its way a bit under Fords control. That is where the slick centres coupled with Jag dealers came from. As well as the wearing of dress clothes instead of outdoor gear. The Corp. management that Ford put in control of LRNA were all Jag guys and no they did not get it. It seems that is changing. It won't be overnight but I think LR will swing back to the more familiar "old way" over the next few years. Back to a more niche market, smaller production, less incentives, and maybe fewer dealers.
I can't see how I offend by stating that the LR3 chassis is the most robust ever made. I am only saying that it is created using the best technology of the day. That being hydro-forming, which creates a stronger chassis with less weak weld spots. It is also thicker than older frames and has more structural rigidity.
Tom- we all appreciate the older LR's and the ability to do field repairs, but a modern automobile company can hardly stick with 1970's technology just because it's easy fix.
as for the Jeep website, Please they make a 2wd wrangler, nuff said. If LR was really a cop out Co. they would make 2wd vehicles like Jeep and Toyota that get better fuel economy etc.
It is easy to "MMMMM" about LR because they don't sell the Defender in the USA and the new vehicles are posh and cost lots of money. But lets face it no other manufacturer sticks to selling vehicles that are all 4x4 or Awd and can be used off road like a LR.

 

[Alaska Mike]

....as for the Jeep website, Please they make a 2wd wrangler, nuff said. If LR was really a cop out Co. they would make 2wd vehicles like Jeep and Toyota that get better fuel economy etc.

As far as I know, Jeep doesn't market a 2WD Wrangler of any variation in the States. The rest of the world, I can't say.

My point was that Jeep still markets to the adventure crowd, realizing that image is why the Jeep marque still exists. When a person buys a Jeep, the buy into the mystique and ignore all of the shortcomings- because the image and what it says about you (as an average consumer) is that important. Most Jeeps never see an improved dirt road, and 4WD is actually rarely used or needed. I'd venture to say the percentage of Land Rovers that are used offroad are even less. That's a function of demographics and price more than capability.

 

[peter]

As far as I know, Jeep doesn't market a 2WD Wrangler of any variation in the States. The rest of the world, I can't say.

My point was that Jeep still markets to the adventure crowd, realizing that image is why the Jeep marque still exists. When a person buys a Jeep, the buy into the mystique and ignore all of the shortcomings- because the image and what it says about you (as an average consumer) is that important. Most Jeeps never see an improved dirt road, and 4WD is actually rarely used or needed. I'd venture to say the percentage of Land Rovers that are used offroad are even less. That's a function of demographics and price more than capability.

Pretty sure it was reported that Land Rover has the highest percent of vehicles that are used off road by its owners. But I'm sure that was World Wide, not in the US.