In search of the "perfect" camper frame

[IdaSHO]

I can see why the RV industry has gone that way on higher end equipment. It seems to be the accepted method.

Actually, you go to the very end of the high end stuff, the large coaches that are designed to be "full-time" RVs, they are built using a wood frame.

Such as Teton

http://www.tetonhomes.com/construction.htm

The argument being the dramatic difference in insulation value over a steel or aluminum frame, as the strength to take abuse without breakage.

Again, the insulation factor is HUGE for the type of traveling we do. Not only does it make for a much more comfortable setup, but it also makes the rig MUCH more energy efficient when heating it (and cooling it for that matter)

Looking forward to seeing the build.

Thanks!

I hope the planning Im doing will actually turn into a build.... :wings:

 

[tom]

idaSHO,

Seems like you have some goals, stick to them. Insulation, strength, some simplicity.
You don't have to build and engineering wonder. Well known RV companies have been building some bad designs for many years and there still on the road today! I've been around RV's for around 30 years. it seems to me that the most common problem that then leads to greater problems are water leaks. After seeing the same problems for 30 years for the same reasons, well, I guess they just build them to leak. My goals were water tight, light weight, no use of wood in framing or inside any walls, roof or floor, and keep it simple and with in budget. I chose aluminum for framing, .019 outside skin and inside. I used 1 1/2 square tubing with 1/16 inch wall thickness. I connected every thing together with 1/8 x 1 1/2 inch aluminum l brackets and..... 3/16 inch pop rivets. 3 in each leg. I chose pop rivets after doing a little test. I welded framing members together and pop riveted another section of framing. Then started hitting the framing material about 6 inches above the joint. The metal near the welds broke before the pop rivets pulled through. Insulation: I used 2 layers of 3/4 in. foil covered foam. Depending on witch manufacture specs you use the r value will be between 10 and 16. I foamed the insulation to the framing, the outside alum. skin and the inside alum. skin. This gives the whole unit a lot of integrity. More labor but less cost. I also foamed the inside of the framing. I opened up an account at a metal supply company and purchased the materials whole sale. I built the unit in 80 to 90 degree weather in the sun, Florida. My first trip was to the mountains in N.C. The first night it was 32 degrees. There were no problems with alum. expanding or contracting. I beefed up the corners to handle the jacks. The unit will stand on three jacks without twisting the framing. My unit weighs 800 lbs with the AC. Light enough to put on a 1/2 ton truck safely. Hope this give you you some good food for thought. Good luck with your build and have fun.

Good camping, Tom

 

[TBRV]

Teton, King of the Road, (excellent wood frame products) unfortunately they went broke using wood frame. Nothing to do with the benefits of wood framing, everything to do with customer perceptions. Consumers believe aluminum is superior.

I have owned units framed in aluminum and have have owned units framed in wood. When I get the time and money, I will build my expo camper with a wood frame. I believe it will give me the best cold weather rig for the money. There are more 30 year old wood framed units still around than any other construction. Looked after it will outlast me.

 

[IdaSHO]

There are more 30 year old wood framed units still around than any other construction.

The camper we are currently using is 40 years old.
It is a 1971 Bell slide-in.

And structurally, it is very sound.

Not bad the the "inferior" wood frame :ylsmoke:

 

[southpier]

http://polymecca.com/housetruck/skeleton-dance

 

[locrwln]

idaSHO,

Seems like you have some goals, stick to them. Insulation, strength, some simplicity.
You don't have to build and engineering wonder. Well known RV companies have been building some bad designs for many years and there still on the road today! I've been around RV's for around 30 years. it seems to me that the most common problem that then leads to greater problems are water leaks. After seeing the same problems for 30 years for the same reasons, well, I guess they just build them to leak. My goals were water tight, light weight, no use of wood in framing or inside any walls, roof or floor, and keep it simple and with in budget. I chose aluminum for framing, .019 outside skin and inside. I used 1 1/2 square tubing with 1/16 inch wall thickness. I connected every thing together with 1/8 x 1 1/2 inch aluminum l brackets and..... 3/16 inch pop rivets. 3 in each leg. I chose pop rivets after doing a little test. I welded framing members together and pop riveted another section of framing. Then started hitting the framing material about 6 inches above the joint. The metal near the welds broke before the pop rivets pulled through. Insulation: I used 2 layers of 3/4 in. foil covered foam. Depending on witch manufacture specs you use the r value will be between 10 and 16. I foamed the insulation to the framing, the outside alum. skin and the inside alum. skin. This gives the whole unit a lot of integrity. More labor but less cost. I also foamed the inside of the framing. I opened up an account at a metal supply company and purchased the materials whole sale. I built the unit in 80 to 90 degree weather in the sun, Florida. My first trip was to the mountains in N.C. The first night it was 32 degrees. There were no problems with alum. expanding or contracting. I beefed up the corners to handle the jacks. The unit will stand on three jacks without twisting the framing. My unit weighs 800 lbs with the AC. Light enough to put on a 1/2 ton truck safely. Hope this give you you some good food for thought. Good luck with your build and have fun.

Good camping, Tom

Any pics? Or is there a build thread that I missed?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ExpoMike]

Any pics? Or is there a build thread that I missed?

Thanks,

Jack

x2

Sounds like a very nice build and would love to see pics of the construction! I am going to need to build a back wall for my M1010 project and your construction sounds like a good way I could go.

 

[UK4X4]

"In search of the perfect camper frame"

then someone suggests a good alternative, and you don't even have the courtesy to reply to his long and detailed thread.

Build your metal and wood frame with zero triangulation- have fun when it disolves



by the way its easy to do a aluminum frame, with whatever sides and insulation thickness R value you wish

without thermal bridging.............

But then you don't listen to helpfull comments............so I'll just give you
two clues

Turtle

Aluminum angle

enjoy

 

[DDW]

The frame I am considering will utilize laminated lumber, with mortised and dado'd, glued joints. Fasteners will be used, but sparingly. Titebond III glue will be used on every joint.

Titebond glue eh? Well at least you are consistently old school! Most of the Luddites still building things of wood (antique boats and aircraft for example) are using epoxy these days. I would suggest taking a look at West System G-Flex. It will create a more shock resistant joint than Titebond.

 

[IdaSHO]

then someone suggests a good alternative, and you don't even have the courtesy to reply to his long and detailed thread.

I dont want to hear about alternatives. Maybe you have reading comprehension problems?

Build your metal and wood frame with zero triangulation- have fun when it disolves

Triangulation is for a tube chassis. This is a camper. Campers utilize sheer. NOT triangulation.

Interior paneling bonded to the structural framing is plenty strong.

by the way its easy to do a aluminum frame, with whatever sides and insulation thickness R value you wish

without thermal bridging.............

But then you don't listen to helpfull comments............so I'll just give you
two clues

Turtle

Aluminum angle

enjoy

Oh, I get clues now? Arent you kind!

Aluminum is not an option for cold weather travels. The best you can do is minimize the thermal bridging. You will never beat it.

Also, considering Turtle to have aluminum frames is a stretch, at best. They are Nida-Core campers with heavy aluminum corners.

And Nida-Core is FAR from a good insulator. With an R-value of less than R4 per inch, Id have to run 4 inch thick walls :yikes: to meet my R14 requirement.

 

[IdaSHO]

Titebond glue eh? Well at least you are consistently old school! Most of the Luddites still building things of wood (antique boats and aircraft for example) are using epoxy these days. I would suggest taking a look at West System G-Flex. It will create a more shock resistant joint than Titebond.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[tom]

I have a few pics posted at 2005 F150 Exploration Project Build Help on page 3.

Hope there entertaining.

Tom

 

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for posting Tom.

You did a great job of that "frame replacement"

Certainly saves a ton of money that way, and hassles. Being able to reuse so much of the original camper.

I plan to reuse a few things, but they are all appliances

 

[familyvan]

I like it! Someday soon I plan on making my own pop up. Nothing on paper yet just ideas. But it my head I was planning on using all wood with foam in between the studs and fiberglassing the walls. Pretty much make my own panels. Anyways I was thinking and did some testing in my garage the other day. For the cab over I was trying to think of a way to make it nice and strong and I was thinking of making my own I beams out of wood Say 1x3's. I made a quick one yesturday in my garage and it proved to be pretty strong with minimal flex. I just used #2 pine and screws. Now when I build my camper I would use a better wood, glue and possibly dado blade the center of the I part for better connection. Just throwing out some Ideas for you and would like to here what you think!

 

[pods8]

I like it! Someday soon I plan on making my own pop up. Nothing on paper yet just ideas. But it my head I was planning on using all wood with foam in between the studs and fiberglassing the walls. Pretty much make my own panels. Anyways I was thinking and did some testing in my garage the other day. For the cab over I was trying to think of a way to make it nice and strong and I was thinking of making my own I beams out of wood Say 1x3's. I made a quick one yesturday in my garage and it proved to be pretty strong with minimal flex. I just used #2 pine and screws. Now when I build my camper I would use a better wood, glue and possibly dado blade the center of the I part for better connection. Just throwing out some Ideas for you and would like to here what you think!

Uni-directional fiberglass along the top of the cab over beam helps a TON in handling the loads (from a calculation standpoint that is).