INEOS Grenadier

naks

Well-known member
There is no way this won't be pushing 100k CAD and there will giant swaths of Canada with no authorized or clued in service centers for many thousands of KM.
I'll check into Ineos in 5 more years and see how they come along
I priced one for ZAR1.7million on the online configurator, the middle spec model.

Works out to CAD 128815.56, but you can take off a good 30% for import duties & taxes.

Sent from my SM-S901B using Tapatalk
 

BuckinghamBuilt

Active member
I got to see (and touch) one at Overland Expo East and was impressed by the interior with the exception that the seats don't fold forward completely flat which may seem like a minor gripe but there is enough room for me to car camp but it would have to be at a slightly raised position.

I'm really interested in the official payload and towing numbers for a optioned IG. Its on my short lists of vehicles I'd purchase but I suspect low build numbers for the North American market which means heavily optioned (and heavy priced) units or they will go for over MSRP.

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naks

Well-known member
probably the most balanced review I've seen so far


found on another forum, no wonder Johnny was complaining about the lack of space for his left leg:

image.png.009c5366407acf8400660d61a1fe0e00.png


I'd imagine your left leg would get quite toasty after an 8-hour drive through the Namibian dunes.
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
I'm inclined to wait for 3rd or 4th gen, paranoid as I am. Let the quirks work out: parts avail, support, software, computers, window seals, drive train stuff, engine choice, pricing/avail. The chances that these don't become hyper expensive secondary market toys for rich people are very low IMHO. BTW at 70k it's a super good deal. I doubt that's the number, but that's loaded Rubicon territory nowadays. Cars cost lots now.
 

mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
According to Motor Trend expect the Trialmaster (the only one I'm interested in) to start around $70,000: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...4DDBFAA71BC5B8C7644795A745FE87C246369302123EC

Honestly for that price point, it would be hard for me to choose the Grenadier over a lot of competitive offerings. I guess we'll see the official numbers relatively soon.

MT also indicated it would arrive in the US in the fall for whatever that's worth.

What would you consider as a competitor at a $75k price point?


Are some of you suggesting that some of those early on the Reservation list, might purchase one just to re-sell it at a higher price to someone else waiting in line/eager for one?

I just recv'd an email from IA about the ability to drive one off-road (55min total time including possible RTI test) in the USA. Looks like they're starting next week in TX, then March in CA, then following months around the SE and SW, then finally up to the PNW in May. Some of their locations seem a bit bizarre to me; FL and GA 1-2months before OR/WA? I'd think there'd be more potential customers in the NW than SE. This detail is making me think they're following potential G-Wagen mall crawler off-road wannabe's, who have the funds for an expensive vehicle and dream about going off-road with it, but will instead just be hitting up the country club?(yes, I'm generalizing in regards to the Grenadier, but sadly because I know the G-Wagen market in the USA has sadly trended this way for too long)
 
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Highlander

The Strong, Silent Type
I'm inclined to wait for 3rd or 4th gen,

There might not be many generation but one. This is the whole point they are training to make - a working SUV needs to be relatively "timeless" . There will be updates and refinements but overall I think the IG will stay the same IMHO.
 

SkiWill

Well-known member
What would you consider as a competitor at a $75k price point?


Are some of you suggesting that some of those early on the Reservation list, might purchase one just to re-sell it at a higher price to someone else waiting in line/eager for one?

I just recv'd an email from IA about the ability to drive one off-road (55min total time including possible RTI test) in the USA. Looks like they're starting next week in TX, then March in CA, then following months around the SE and SW, then finally up to the PNW in May. Some of their locations seem a bit bizarre to me; FL and GA 1-2months before OR/WA? I'd think there'd be more potential customers in the NW than SE. This detail is making me think they're following potential G-Wagen mall crawler off-road wannabe's, who have the funds for an expensive vehicle and dream about going off-road with it, but will instead just be hitting up the country club?(yes, I'm generalizing in regards to the Grenadier, but sadly because I know the G-Wagen market in the USA has sadly trended this way for too long)

I'm going to start with a disclaimer: What I consider a competitor at a $75k price point is NOT what everyone else will consider a competitor. So here's MY opinion for whatever it's worth.

This is a vehicle that is intended to take people to remote locations to go camping, or that's what I would use it for. It is NOT a rock crawler nor a commuter car, though it will likely be used as the latter. With that general purpose in mind for $75k in the USA I could buy a Ram 2500 Tradesman 4x4 and almost a 4 wheel camper to go with it which would be much more comfortable for camping and likely have similar range given the 2500's large fuel capacity. For a slightly smaller truck, I could get a Gladiator Sport S with 1,800 lbs payload and a complete camper for less than $75k.

I could buy a used 200 series Land Cruiser and have proven reliability and ease of service anywhere in North America with more safety tech and greater daily driver convenience. Even with 200 series inflated prices I would wager I could get longer life out of a $75k 200 Series than a first of a kind Grenadier with a BMW B58. I could buy a base model Jeep Wrangler for the USA and a used Land Cruiser that I could keep in Africa for when I visit (I won't do this any time soon with young kids).

I could buy a nice used G class with a proven and reliable naturally aspirated V8. I could buy and completely outfit a new Lexus GX460 with proven reliability. I could stick with Land Rover and (gasp!) get a Defender for $64,000 that will have more payload capacity and be more than capable enough off road or even a Discovery and have similar payload but vastly superior range than the thirsty Grenadier.

I could import a "real" Defender, fully restored and outfitted. I could do the same with a 70 or 80s series Land Cruiser.

My point is that for $75k you may not have a direct W461 G Class or 70 series new off the lot competitor that is the exact same beam axle and body on frame construction with a nearly identical footprint. But in North America, there will be plenty of very compelling options that will get you out and about having great adventures for $75k or an awful lot less. The use case of those driving the entire pan-American is very very small. Most people just go camping because they have day jobs and other family responsibilities and can't logistically handle months away for a true international overland "expedition" which is really just driving around and camping when you think about it. If you really need 1,800 lbs or more of payload and will be traveling in North America, a pickup will fit almost everywhere you want to go for a lot less money and a lot less maintenance cost. Africa is a different story, but then I'd tell you to just buy a Land Cruiser because you still can.

Unfortunately, I think your assertion is correct and that the Grenadier will rapidly become the go to vehicle for the likes of the guy I saw in Park City with the LS swapped Defender at his 2nd, 3rd, 4th? home to look cool on his way to the ski lifts but without having to deal with the peasant class 110 hp 4 cylinder motor.
 

nickw

Adventurer
I'm going to start with a disclaimer: What I consider a competitor at a $75k price point is NOT what everyone else will consider a competitor. So here's MY opinion for whatever it's worth.

This is a vehicle that is intended to take people to remote locations to go camping, or that's what I would use it for. It is NOT a rock crawler nor a commuter car, though it will likely be used as the latter. With that general purpose in mind for $75k in the USA I could buy a Ram 2500 Tradesman 4x4 and almost a 4 wheel camper to go with it which would be much more comfortable for camping and likely have similar range given the 2500's large fuel capacity. For a slightly smaller truck, I could get a Gladiator Sport S with 1,800 lbs payload and a complete camper for less than $75k.

I could buy a used 200 series Land Cruiser and have proven reliability and ease of service anywhere in North America with more safety tech and greater daily driver convenience. Even with 200 series inflated prices I would wager I could get longer life out of a $75k 200 Series than a first of a kind Grenadier with a BMW B58. I could buy a base model Jeep Wrangler for the USA and a used Land Cruiser that I could keep in Africa for when I visit (I won't do this any time soon with young kids).

I could buy a nice used G class with a proven and reliable naturally aspirated V8. I could buy and completely outfit a new Lexus GX460 with proven reliability. I could stick with Land Rover and (gasp!) get a Defender for $64,000 that will have more payload capacity and be more than capable enough off road or even a Discovery and have similar payload but vastly superior range than the thirsty Grenadier.

I could import a "real" Defender, fully restored and outfitted. I could do the same with a 70 or 80s series Land Cruiser.

My point is that for $75k you may not have a direct W461 G Class or 70 series new off the lot competitor that is the exact same beam axle and body on frame construction with a nearly identical footprint. But in North America, there will be plenty of very compelling options that will get you out and about having great adventures for $75k or an awful lot less. The use case of those driving the entire pan-American is very very small. Most people just go camping because they have day jobs and other family responsibilities and can't logistically handle months away for a true international overland "expedition" which is really just driving around and camping when you think about it. If you really need 1,800 lbs or more of payload and will be traveling in North America, a pickup will fit almost everywhere you want to go for a lot less money and a lot less maintenance cost. Africa is a different story, but then I'd tell you to just buy a Land Cruiser because you still can.

Unfortunately, I think your assertion is correct and that the Grenadier will rapidly become the go to vehicle for the likes of the guy I saw in Park City with the LS swapped Defender at his 2nd, 3rd, 4th? home to look cool on his way to the ski lifts but without having to deal with the peasant class 110 hp 4 cylinder motor.
I think you are spot on.

Also, I think $75k is being very conservative....I bet these land for $80-90k and then there is the secondary market / ADM BS game, dollars to donuts, they'll end up at $120-150k, one can look at any first of a kind vehicle to see that is inevitable, Broncos, Rivians, niche sports cars, etc.

Some guys / gals may be on a waiting list and MAY get them for MSRP, but they'll be tempted when they can flip it for a $30k+ profit..."it was great, but why wouldn't it flip it", then go out and buy a something else....
 

SkiWill

Well-known member
Understood. I do find it curious tho that it has been marketed as a rugged utilitarian vehicle that should be attractive to farmers, mining co's, NGOs, etc.

Not saying it isn't but I don't see that playing out here in NA - or, I should stick to Canada only - when we have Domestic alternatives. And doubt the image of farmer hauling pigs to the village green ( not that there's anything wrong with that ) will be conducive to up marketing the vehicle. So I think the messaging will urbanism (for my market). Less bush, more downtown.

Because that's how the old Defender was marketed even though farmers in the UK stopped using Defenders ages ago because Japanese pickups were cheaper, more reliable, and easier to clean out.

Sir Jim said that the third most important part of a 4 wheel drive was looks. He's not a billionaire for being stupid. He knows people will buy a Grenadier simply because of the way it looks and the image that it projects. See old Defender pricing for proof. The pricing of old Land Rovers certainly isn't because it's a safe, well built, high performance vehicle because it's none of those things. I still want one though.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Because that's how the old Defender was marketed even though farmers in the UK stopped using Defenders ages ago because Japanese pickups were cheaper, more reliable, and easier to clean out.

Sir Jim said that the third most important part of a 4 wheel drive was looks. He's not a billionaire for being stupid. He knows people will buy a Grenadier simply because of the way it looks and the image that it projects. See old Defender pricing for proof. The pricing of old Land Rovers certainly isn't because it's a safe, well built, high performance vehicle because it's none of those things. I still want one though.
"Looks" is an interesting concept.....I think people want a Landcruiser or Defender because it proved itself and defined a generation of vehicles and people want to relive or be part of that, which is why those old rigs are popular and whey their looks became legendary . I don't think they were instant classics and certainly wouldn't have the clout they have today and wouldn't be preferred for their looks if they didn't stand the test of time.

IG is playing off the reputation that the LR Defender laid down without proving itself first - but I think that is the world we live in, it looks the part due to a reputation of a completely unrelated vehicle.

Now in saying that, I'm not pointing fingers, we all fall for this at times.....drive what makes you feel good, but I think we need to be honest with ourselves....I don't see HOW this vehicle is going to put to work on a farm, packed with mud in the engine bay, deferred maintenance, forgotten oil changes and perform like the Cruisers and Defenders did. I see it going the way of the John Deer tractor debacle, lots of issues that farmers can't fix and IG has them by the bollocks.
 

Cayenne-958-TDI

Active member
Why we have pre-ordered a Grenadier,
Spent over 200k miles off-roading our Miti Montero. Next 10 years & 137k principally off-road miles, we have taken our 958 Cayenne diesel to more places than most thought possible. It meets most of our overland needs with one big exception the requirement for ULSD that is not available outside North America. Having a petrol Grenadier opens the world for us to explore with the same towing capacity. Not a lot of SUV options that can tow 7700#.
As to price, if it goes into the 120k - 150k range we would definitely look at alternatives. If we do not feel the support network is sufficient in Central / South America, we would also look at alternatives.
Our plans are to use the IG for what it is designed to do. Looking forward to our test drive outside of LA next month. We are still hopeful that IG's aspirations become reality.
For what we currently do see:
 

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