INEOS Grenadier

[nickw]

Why we have pre-ordered a Grenadier,
Spent over 200k miles off-roading our Miti Montero. Next 10 years & 137k principally off-road miles, we have taken our 958 Cayenne diesel to more places than most thought possible. It meets most of our overland needs with one big exception the requirement for ULSD that is not available outside North America. Having a petrol Grenadier opens the world for us to explore with the same towing capacity. Not a lot of SUV options that can tow 7700#.
As to price, if it goes into the 120k - 150k range we would definitely look at alternatives. If we do not feel the support network is sufficient in Central / South America, we would also look at alternatives.
Our plans are to use the IG for what it is designed to do. Looking forward to our test drive outside of LA next month. We are still hopeful that IG's aspirations become reality.
For what we currently do see:

Meet Otis - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Cayenne 955-957 2003-2010 - Meet Otis - Would like to thank Randy Wells and PCAs Panorama for the wonderful 11 page article on our Cayenne 'Otis' in the December issue. A lot of folks have helped us on our journey building our overlanding Cayenne. We have also done rally events like the ALCAN...

rennlist.com

Why wouldn't you just get a petrol version of the Porsche with same towing capacity and solve your problem? It would be 1/2 the cost of the IG, known vehicle, 'relatively' easy maintenance....an most importantly you could at least keep part of your user name

 

[Cayenne-958-TDI]

Why wouldn't you just get a petrol version of the Porsche with same towing capacity and solve your problem? It would be 1/2 the cost of the IG, known vehicle, 'relatively' easy maintenance....an most importantly you could at least keep part of your user name

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Yes a petrol Cayenne could be an answer but, the new ones are more oriented to in town driving vs overland. Another reason for a fresh new vehicle is that our current has seen a lot of miles. For the very long trips envisioned we would prefer a fresher rig with similar towing capabilities. Most new rigs are severely lacking in tow capability.

 

[Cayenne-958-TDI]

So you would really travel the world with a new vehicle and marque such as this I don't mind so much to be an early adopter (in NA) but me living in a city and presuming they'll be a sales/service nearby plays positively into my risk assessment. Not sure I'd buy early if that wasn't the case...

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Intend to first take a few extended NA trips of 7k to 10k miles each. This will also enable us to fit out our IG a lot easier than remotely.
Several BDRs some of which we have already done, TAT one way then TCT return. Would exclude Tuktoyaktuk as we have already been there as part of a 5,500 mile one way winter rally with -40F, 60mph wind w blizzard. After this then yes we would be completely comfortable exploring beyond NA.

 

[86scotty]

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Yes a petrol Cayenne could be an answer but, the new ones are more oriented to in town driving vs overland. Another reason for a fresh new vehicle is that our current has seen a lot of miles. For the very long trips envisioned we would prefer a fresher rig with similar towing capabilities. Most new rigs are severely lacking in tow capability.

Bingo. Every formerly 'Overland' friendly model from about any manufacturer just gets softer and softer anymore. I can't name one that hasn't. The wealthy and the mall crawlers are winning. Pave paradise.......

The Ineos is supposed to be totally counter to that. But, if it flies, history shows in 20 years it will be a (soft) shell of it's former self.

 

[nickw]

.
Yes a petrol Cayenne could be an answer but, the new ones are more oriented to in town driving vs overland. Another reason for a fresh new vehicle is that our current has seen a lot of miles. For the very long trips envisioned we would prefer a fresher rig with similar towing capabilities. Most new rigs are severely lacking in tow capability.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/41d8fa00-ed6f-4ee6-8c96-f7092b09b220/

there I just saved you $70k......

 

[Cayenne-958-TDI]

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/41d8fa00-ed6f-4ee6-8c96-f7092b09b220/

there I just saved you $70k......

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Very nice for around town. This one as a base model low torque six banger, big no with all the issues with a pano roof, less range, and w/o air suspension = not enough ground clearance.
In our and others opinion the diesel with air suspension we have is a unicorn. Would not part with it especially with all the skid plates, roll bar, rock sliders, winch, bush bar etc that would not transfer to a petrol Cayenne. Still taking extended off-road trips with our diesel, several adventures planned.

 

[nickw]

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Very nice for around town. This one as a base model low torque six banger, big no with all the issues with a pano roof, less range, and w/o air suspension = not enough ground clearance.
In our and others opinion the diesel with air suspension we have is a unicorn. Would not part with it especially with all the skid plates, roll bar, rock sliders, winch, bush bar etc that would not transfer to a petrol Cayenne. Still taking extended off-road trips with our diesel, several adventures planned.

Can't you get all those features / upgrades in the Petrol though? I know they make lifts for them. The only reason I am poking on this is I've always thought they were cool and just recently saw one here locally, it was an older Turbo model, but was lifted with rear tire carrier.

 

[Cayenne-958-TDI]

Can't you get all those features / upgrades in the Petrol though? I know they make lifts for them. The only reason I am poking on this is I've always thought they were cool and just recently saw one here locally, it was an older Turbo model, but was lifted with rear tire carrier.

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"all those features / upgrades in the Petrol" were available when new, rarely ordered on a base model or diesel . Yes it is popular right now to add lift kits - very difficult and expensive to add air suspension due to all of the multiple computers and software involved. Not a fan of the lift kits as this creates multiple issues especially with half shaft angles causing them to self destruct. This even with a sub-frame drop. Some carry spare half shafts to replace on trail. Folks who add a lift seem to be more into rock climbing and crawling where they are out for a weekend and can get a tow home. We are not into rock climbing and crawling for its own sake - prefer to take long distance adventures where the journey is as important as the destination. Changing out half shafts at -40F, blizzard, 60mph winds for a wind chill of -90F is not appealing to us at all.
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[TCM]

A Grenadier thread has now become a thread about the Porsche Cayenne. Go figure.

 

[Cayenne-958-TDI]

Back to topic,
Next month we are signed up to drive an IG at Rowher Flat OVP / Santa Clarita
Has anyone driven there & what was it like?

 

[mk216v]

nickw made a good point to Otis about a petrol Cayenne alternative. Biggest difference I see to the IG (and this is where I come back to what would be my 3rd G-Wagen as a $75k alternative) is that exterior and interior-wise, the IG and G-Wagen appear pretty similar in boxy nature, ability to sleep inside (save for the totally stupid non-fold-flat IG rear seats, WTH!??). Cayenne is rounded and much shorter inside.
IG and G are also very similar in F&R solid axles, coil sprung, triple diff locks, etc.
And while G resale value still hasn't seemed to drop in 10yrs, one can get a pretty nice used/maintained G for $75k, where it probably won't have nearly the wacky brand-new-vehicle-to-market issues the IG will, since the G has been pretty much the same since 2003 in USA. Just my $0.02.

In regards to OR/WA after FL/GA, the weather in central OR/WA is dry and pleasant right now, FL/GA is probably fair any month so those states can hang back....unless mall crawling wealthies are the target audience for IA vs the pig and hemp farmers.

 

[Grassland]

I get a bit confused when people say triple differential locks.
Does the IG not use a part time/locked transfer case with low range like domestic NA trucks?

Front and rear ELD are a treat though. Open on the street, locked when you need. My Fiddy loved to go sideways on ice and snow with even a clutch LSD. The Ranger was worse with a lock-rite if you used throttle at the wrong time.

 

[nickw]

I get a bit confused when people say triple differential locks.
Does the IG not use a part time/locked transfer case with low range like domestic NA trucks?

Front and rear ELD are a treat though. Open on the street, locked when you need. My Fiddy loved to go sideways on ice and snow with even a clutch LSD. The Ranger was worse with a lock-rite if you used throttle at the wrong time.

It's only confusing because all T-cases up until the 'AWD / center diff' stuff came out were 'locked'....it's kind of a buzz word these days IMO. But triple lock = 1) locked center diff 2) locked rear and 3) locked front.

Traditional transfer cases 2wd -> 4hi -> 4lo are locked by their nature. Rigs like the FJ80 that are full time 4wd / awd have a center diff that can be locked turning it into a traditional transfercase. It's nice, it's a PITA to go from 2wd -> 4hi -> 2wd several times in town for me when it's kinda icy but bare pavement in spots.

 

[mk216v]

It's only confusing because all T-cases up until the 'AWD / center diff' stuff came out were 'locked'....it's kind of a buzz word these days IMO. But triple lock = 1) locked center diff 2) locked rear and 3) locked front.

Traditional transfer cases 2wd -> 4hi -> 4lo are locked by their nature. Rigs like the FJ80 that are full time 4wd / awd have a center diff that can be locked turning it into a traditional transfercase. It's nice, it's a PITA to go from 2wd -> 4hi -> 2wd several times in town for me when it's kinda icy but bare pavement in spots.

You got it.
W463 G-Wagens were 4Matic AWD, with Hi/Low t-case. Then also in sequence(you'd have to re-wire to be able to lock out of sequence) #1 Center diff lock, #2 Rear diff lock, #3 Front diff lock. Note; the diff locks on the W463 (unlike the W460 which were hydraulic slave cyl only) were a VERY overcomplicated (typical of Mercedes) electronic switch->pneumatic vacuum lines->hydraulic slave cyl. Common for the vacuum lines to leak and then the lockers would take a lot longer to go from yellow(locking, please wait) to red(locked, thanks for waiting) on the switches.

 

[nickw]

You got it.
W463 G-Wagens were 4Matic AWD, with Hi/Low t-case. Then also in sequence(you'd have to re-wire to be able to lock out of sequence) #1 Center diff lock, #2 Rear diff lock, #3 Front diff lock. Note; the diff locks on the W463 (unlike the W460 which were hydraulic slave cyl only) were a VERY overcomplicated (typical of Mercedes) electronic switch->pneumatic vacuum lines->hydraulic slave cyl. Common for the vacuum lines to leak and then the lockers would take a lot longer to go from yellow(locking, please wait) to red(locked, thanks for waiting) on the switches.

Gotta love (3) different systems electronic, vacuum and hydro in one.

I always loved Toyotas cable lockers for that reason.