Look at these idiots.

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Wow, what an expedition rig I could build with the coin in those useless trucks!!

Yeah!

 

[calamaridog]

Frankly I have no idea where that was filmed, but if it was on public land then I'm disgusted AND angry. Even if that was an "open" OHV area, that was still totally unacceptable.

I'd really like to know exactly where that was filmed.

 

[bigreen505]

To be honest, I don't really care whether it was public or private land. We need to view this in the context of what it is, a public relations video. And as such, we need to view it as the general public might. What makes it a PR video is that it is being disseminated through communications channels to reach a large number of people -- the Internet. [Edit -- this is written from the POV of a casual observer, I'm not saying I agree with this]

Is it on public land? Yes, because it does not clearly show/explain otherwise.

Was irrepairable damage done to the environment? Of course, we can see that.

Are these people representative of four wheelers (i.e. people with trucks) in general? Yes, that is why you see people just like them on the covers of off-road interest magazines, television shows, etc. It is further example that people who drive off road are a menace to our planet and our society and vehicles like that should be banned.

Honestly guys if I had a client with an axe to grind against the four wheel community I would hire a team to put together a video like this because everyone but teenage boys (regardless of age) will be put off and outraged by what they see and march down to their local Greenpeace/PIRG/Sierra office and sign a petition to close trails to motorized vehicles. Lots of trails have already been closed to motorized vehicles and now the same people are coming back trying to show how much damage those crazy renegade mountain bikers are doing -- and they are WINNING!

There was a big thread recently on one of the Colorado boards (I think it was CO4x4.org) about Greenpeace showing up in force at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival, and I think the Aspen Jass Festival too, preaching to a relatively confined audience about how off road travel of any kind is destroying the environment and the sacred Colorado mountains. Guys, they were collecting signatures left and right.

Bottom line, if a picture is worth a thousand word, a video like this is priceless.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

To be honest, I don't really care whether it was public or private land. We need to view this in the context of what it is, a public relations video. And as such, we need to view it as the general public might. What makes it a PR video is that it is being disseminated through communications channels to reach a large number of people -- the Internet. .

That just about hits the nail square on the head!

 

[datrupr]

I am speechless at what I saw, and I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I think everyone else summed up my thoughts on this matter already.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

That is the Desert Mountain area (not 100% on the exact location). Some of the West Desert area (the area basically from SLC West into Nevada) IS open to unlimited cross-country travel, sadly enforcing "ethics" in these areas is nearly impossible.

As for the video, that 5+ years old. It was featured in a movie called Hammerdown 1, which was one of the first rockcrawling video's and had alot of footage from UROC and Supercrawl. I've been to the area a half-dozen times in the last couple years, I don't think you would be able to see any damage to this day. One because the flora grows back pretty quick in the area, and the other is because that area sees so much use :yikes:

As disturbing as that video may be for some, I personally find this one worse...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibpFvT9IZm8

Forest Lake is a major feeding area for deer, elk, moose, bear, etc. Besides the half-dozen signs around the lake, one should still know better :smilies27

You could easily spend hours finding un-ethical video's on the internet. Sad...

 

[calamaridog]

Kurt,

Thanks for making things more clear, as you often do.

And yes, the FJ video is disturbing.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I don't care if it's...........

Private land.....Public land.....no limit on overland, travel land......

Just don't do it!

It can not be explained away!

It's NOT OK..........!

............and!.........It gives us ALL a bad name!.............:gunt:

I don't know if the "explained away" was aimed at me... but I cleary stated that "ethics" are hard to enforce in these situations. Even if a BLM ranger were on hand during that situation (which is likely), its probable they would have done nothing about it assuming it is in a cross-country travel permitted area. I know the "bad name" situation as well as the next. I spent 100+ hours a year working with the BLM/FS, etc on projects throughout the state, many aimed at improving our sports bad image. I would never condone this type of activity on public land (private is private, I don't see your contention there?).

Thankfully this seems to be a pretty isolated issue, as I mentioned I recreate in that area of the desert quite often and have never seen evidence of lasting damage. There are areas even closer to SLC (the population base) that are still open to cross-country travel, I don't advocate destroying flora, etc, but its not illegal and nor enforced. The new mandatory BLM travel plans that are taking place all over the West are a mixed blessing in some respect as they will likely eliminate most (sand dunes being an exception) of these areas...

 

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for all of the work you do Kurt. It is appreciated.

I think spectacles like the link I posted are "ok" (i.e. acceptable), as long at they take a brief moment to advise the viewer it is on a public, open OHV area and to always tread lightly on state and federal lands.

Unfortunately, these guys are so self-serving that they do not understand the damage these types of videos do. For every 10 things we do right, just one video like that erases them all from public perception.

 

[crawler#976]

I really hate to disagree with folks on this board, but indeed, there are areas set aside specifically for OHV use.

The BLM has set rules for useage, and as long as they are followed, I personally don't have a problem with this type of activity. Perhaps the most famous, at least to those of us who participate in the sport of rock crawling or desert racing, is Johnson Valley OHV area in California.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/barstow/johnson.html

Having areas like this help to prevent the wholesale "wildcating" of trails - and we all agree that's no good.

Mark

 

[flyingwil]

I really hate to disagree with folks on this board, but indeed, there are areas set aside specifically for OHV use.

The BLM has set rules for useage, and as long as they are followed, I personally don't have a problem with this type of activity. Perhaps the most famous, at least to those of us who participate in the sport of rock crawling or desert racing, is Johnson Valley OHV area in California.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/barstow/johnson.html

Having areas like this help to prevent the wholesale "wildcating" of trails - and we all agree that's no good.

Mark

Yeah, but Monkey see Monkey do... They way I see it, anyone that is not properly educated will think that this type of activity is ok to do, just because they do not understand the differences of land use. Like Scott said it would be helpful if they had a disclaimer.

 

[Ursidae69]

I’ve been dwelling on this for a little while now. I’ve already posted my thoughts on the video, basically it’s not an activity I agree with. What I’ve been thinking about is the fact that this video is part of a larger land use issue. These issues are all relative. This video, relative to the OHV crowd, might be controversial and might cause some panties to get in a wad (including mine) over the fact that some soil was disturbed.

However, relative to larger land use issues, like development, this video means nothing. How much desert was disturbed by the yahoo driving the monster truck in the video versus the hundreds of square miles of pristine desert bulldozed for the Anthem development? (AZ residents know this one). Phoenix AZ, Tucson AZ, Sierra Vista AZ, Albuquerque NM, are all cities growing outwardly at alarming rates. Where is the outrage for that?

Relative to worldwide land use policies, this land development problem in the US means pretty much nothing. The Sonoran Desert in the southwest is the most diverse place in the country when looking at biodiversity. However, compared to forests in the tropics where there might be 10,000 different species on one acre of land, our losses here in the southwest don’t mean much. We are losing places that affect global health and climate daily, where is the outrage for that?

I guess my point is, the video annoyed me and I personally don’t support that type of activity, but in the grand scheme it doesn’t mean much, we have much bigger problems. Sorry, just the jaded greenie side of me talking here…:wavey:

 

[BajaTaco]

I guess my point is, the video annoyed me and I personally don’t support that type of activity, but in the grand scheme it doesn’t mean much, we have much bigger problems.

Interesting point Chuck. I'm just typing my first thoughts here... without really contemplating it. In the latter scenario you describe, the entire landscape transforms to serve another purpose on a permanent basis. There will be houses with families living in them, paved streets with traffic on them, sidewalks with people walking on them, maybe some postal routes with mail being delivered... maybe some business providing goods and services... it all changes completely and permanently. In contrast, these guys will come out to this site, do their thing, shoot the video, and then leave. What may have been a previously natural landscape will now be changed (in my opinion, "scarred") as a result, but otherwise, nothing changes. Is there really any consequence of environmental damage, other than the aesthetics? I'm not sure, I don't know. I think maybe the bottom line is that the guys in the video see that landscape as a perfect setting for the use of their trucks, and have no consideration at all of what the aesthetics of the place is after they leave, or for how how long the evidence of their actions remains. If indeed they are on private land or public land where the law allows what they did, it comes down to personal outlook and choices. In the eyes of the law, they may not really be doing anything wrong. On an environmental level, maybe the impact they create is insignificant to the survival of the ecosystem that is there. (I have no idea).

Having said all of that, and to express my own opinion... to me, it's no different than them going out there and dumping a few busted up old appliances, and then shooting them full of holes and leaving their shells all over the ground. Maybe a packrat might even find an old refrigerator dumped on the ground useful, who knows. But it looks like hell and I sure don't appreciate seeing it when I am out traveling in natural places. I think tearing up and/or littering an otherwise natural and beautiful landscape is just poor form.

On the flip-side, I guess I could potentially call myself a hypocrite, because I like off-road and rally racing. But I try to justify those activities by reassuring myself that they are sanctioned events, held on a scheduled basis (not constant use) and for the most part they use established roads (except cases like the Dakar rally where they travel over the open sahara desert) and they sweep the course after the events.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Interesting point Chuck. I'm just typing my first thoughts here... without really contemplating it...

GREAT points!

It really comes down to a case by case evaluation of these events. Sadly that takes more manpower than those on "our" side of the fence can reasonably develop. Some would freak if they saw UROC rock-crawling footage that takes place on public land... though it all takes place 100% legit including permits, fees, and BLM in attendance. Watching a couple minutes of rock-crawling makes the monster truck look very minimal in perspective. Once again, you can visit these areas just months later and see really little "evidence" of the events.

 

[Ruffin' It]

It doesn't take a tree hugger to look at that and think it should be shut down.

I'll bet the guys on the videos ********** and moan about land closures everytime they hear about them.

:iagree:

This is a great example of why the tree huggers want to shut us down!!!

This is EP Gang vs. the event!
:ar15: + :truck: = :campfire:

:costumed-smiley-007