Sidewall strength, tire pressure, and tire quality

[proper4wd]

You guys are nuts and your lack of real world experience is showing.

To close this argument once and for all - there are practically zero C rated tires available on the market anymore. You will find them in "Jeep" sizes like 31x10.5R15, or 265/75R16, or sometimes in 33x12.5R15 or 35x12.5R15 - but all of the modern metric tire sizes that are common and useful are D and E only.

So, we adapt - lower the air pressure by 10-15% across the board and get back to enjoying the trail and scenery rather than hyper-focusing on your tire flexibility.

As far as the statement, " If you don't mind bumping obstacles and spinning on a 1000' cliff then go with the E. I've never had a tire spin or had to back up and bump on Cliffhanger trail with a C." - if tire load rating is the only factor you think is at play here, well then that tells me all I need to know about your experience level.

Happy trails,

 

[andrew61987]

You guys are nuts and your lack of real world experience is showing.

To close this argument once and for all - there are practically zero C rated tires available on the market anymore. You will find them in "Jeep" sizes like 31x10.5R15, or 265/75R16, or sometimes in 33x12.5R15 or 35x12.5R15 - but all of the modern metric tire sizes that are common and useful are D and E only.

So, we adapt - lower the air pressure by 10-15% across the board and get back to enjoying the trail and scenery rather than hyper-focusing on your tire flexibility.

As far as the statement, " If you don't mind bumping obstacles and spinning on a 1000' cliff then go with the E. I've never had a tire spin or had to back up and bump on Cliffhanger trail with a C." - if tire load rating is the only factor you think is at play here, well then that tells me all I need to know about your experience level.

Happy trails,

Thanks. I realized most of the discussion here was moot when I saw that the tire I've decided on, S/T MAXX, only comes in E in any of the sizes I'm considering.

 

[Stumpalump]

You guys are nuts and your lack of real world experience is showing.

To close this argument once and for all - there are practically zero C rated tires available on the market anymore. You will find them in "Jeep" sizes like 31x10.5R15, or 265/75R16, or sometimes in 33x12.5R15 or 35x12.5R15 - but all of the modern metric tire sizes that are common and useful are D and E only.

So, we adapt - lower the air pressure by 10-15% across the board and get back to enjoying the trail and scenery rather than hyper-focusing on your tire flexibility.

As far as the statement, " If you don't mind bumping obstacles and spinning on a 1000' cliff then go with the E. I've never had a tire spin or had to back up and bump on Cliffhanger trail with a C." - if tire load rating is the only factor you think is at play here, well then that tells me all I need to know about your experience level.

Happy trails,

The hardest trail in Moab has been Pritchett for decades. The two people that run it disagree with you. The two people that disagree have run C,D,and E and I even had a set of sticky red label compound Maxxis. I know Robert Bills has seen Stickies. He has run the Rubicon and Pritchett. I was a paid trial guide for Jeep Jamboree and others. I've help build two off road parks. This is what we say. If you can't find a C then obviously buy a D. Im glad you are getting you by just fine but people come here for info and facts that they can trust. Don't spew an E is a C with less air or anything like that. They are different tires for diffent applications so the tire closest to your factory recommended rating is best in every way. Going up a 1 rating in a pinch if that's all you can find is great but doing it given a choice is not. Plenty of D rated tires to chose from but save the E for your Cummins Dodge truck.

 

[OSV]

Finally, another set of C rated tires (35" BFG MT) on the Rubicon. I typically ran them at 14 psi as a good compromise between compliance over obstacles and maintaining sidewall height (I've run the Rubicon 5 times - first on 32" tires, twice on 33's and twice on 35's - all were C-rated tires). This photo is from the 4th trip. 16 psi wasn't quite enough; 14 psi was.

and how long ago was all that done? how many of those tires that you ran then are available now?

you are ignoring the point that people in this thread made about e-rated tires not all being the same, which was again reinforced by the link that you yourself quoted: "read his 2500 mile update on the tires: "As far as airing down goes, I have to say that unlike our old 37" Toyo's which you'd have to take down to about 8 psi to get them to look and feel aired down, simply dropping the STT Pros to about 15 psi will give them the same look and feel and this in spite of them being load range E.""

how can you claim that you can't find the tire you want, when you've just been given first-hand experience from someone who owns a flexible e-rated tire? you ignore that and you ignore the photo showing the tire wrinkling back on itself.

 

[Robert Bills]

You guys are nuts and your lack of real world experience is showing.

Since you like to boast so much about all of your "proper 4WD" experience and repeatedly infer that you have more "real world" experience than those with whom you so unpleasantly disagree, its time for you to be specific. How many years of offroading experience can you legitimately claim? Internet screen time and magazine reading doesn't count.

I'll start: 52 years in the driver's seat and with wrench in hand, starting in 1964 on the "road" from Mexicali to La Paz in a 4-banger Jeep.

When will I know it all? Never. That's the wisdom of real experience.

 

[OSV]

"Plenty of flexibility" but not as much and not near as much flex on the tread blocks where it counts. You can let more air out of an E to get it to look as low as a C but now your riding on more rubber and less air.

in the offroad world more rubber on the ground is known as a bigger contact patch... airing down is done to increase the size of the contact patch, which improves traction and flotation.

given that your offroad vehicle is a trailer queen that has to get towed to the trailhead, i'm not even sure why you keep bringing up ride quality... fyi, this isn't a cadillac forum :wings:

There is not one thing an E does better on a light vehicle.

everyone in this thread but you has agreed that e-rated tires are stronger and more puncture resistant, so that's not a true statement.

you and robert are running small tires, which means limitations like having to crab walk up rocker knocker... with bigger tires, people cruise right over that obstacle: https://youtu.be/Iv1lg7zFZps?t=59s

 

[Robert Bills]

. . . how many of those tires that you ran then are available now?

In terms of tire diameter, width, rim size and load rating - all of them. The 31" and 32" diameter Cooper Discoverer AT3 with C load rating is still available for 15" and 16" rims. The 33" and 35" BFG mud terrain (now KM2) with C load rating is still available for 15" rims.

The issue here is there are few choices for C and D load rated tires in wheel diameters 16" and greater. That doesn't make the E rated tires that are available better than C or D load rated tires, merely that as a result of economic and market forces E load rated tires are the only game in town for many tire sizes.

The point several of us are making is that a tire purchaser needs to prioritize tire properties and characteristics when making a purchase and pick the "bundle of compromises" best suited to their needs. If ride comfort and tire flexibility are more important than tire size, then give load rating a higher priority and look at tires with load ratings better matched to the vehicle weight. If size matters most, but the only load rating available in that size is E, then move load rating to the bottom of the list of priorities. However, if the size, tread pattern and construction is available in a tire with a load rating matched to the vehicle weight, we are saying that one should choose the tire with the weight matched load rating over one with a greater load rating.

As the OP noted, and I observed when I last purchased tires, the ST/Maxx is only available with an E load rating. Like the OP, I could have purchased another tire with a C or D load rating, but not with the tread pattern or sidewall construction I wanted. I weighed the advantages and disadvantages of each alternative and chose the best compromise for my particular situation. What I did not do is engage in the fairy tale that "an E rated tire with less air in it is just like a C."

 

[Robert Bills]

. . . [1] everyone in this thread but [Stumpalump] has agreed that e-rated tires are stronger and more puncture resistant, so that's not a true statement.

[2] you and Robert are running small tires, which means limitations like having to crab walk up rocker knocker... with bigger tires, people cruise right over that obstacle:

1. Everyone is not saying that E load rated tires are "stronger and more puncture resistant." To the contrary, an E load rating simply means that a tire has a a stiffer construction to carry a greater load at specified tire pressures than a C or D load rated tire. Load rating alone does not equate to strength or puncture resistance. Not all E load rated tires are created equally in that regard.

2. Since when are 35" tires small? Also, not every offroad application requires large diameter tires and rockcrawling is but one small segment in the offroading/overlanding/expo world. The relevance of your statement regarding "Rocker Knockeer" is what?

 

[proper4wd]

 

[OSV]

In terms of tire diameter, width, rim size and load rating - all of them. The 31" and 32" diameter Cooper Discoverer AT3 with C load rating is still available for 15" and 16" rims. The 33" and 35" BFG mud terrain (now KM2) with C load rating is still available for 15" rims.

The issue here is there are few choices for C and D load rated tires in wheel diameters 16" and greater. That doesn't make the E rated tires that are available better than C or D load rated tires, merely that as a result of economic and market forces E load rated tires are the only game in town for many tire sizes.

one of the determining factors with how a tire rides and how the contact patch reacts to tire pressure is the sidewall distance from the rim to the tread, so comparisons using different wheel sizes are problematic, you really don't have any basis of comparison for what you've been saying... and no, i'm not convinced that the km2 is the exact same tire as the mt, i think that you are on thin ice with that.

the bottom line here is that neither of you guys has any experience with bigger e-rated tires.

What I did not do is engage in the fairy tale that "an E rated tire with less air in it is just like a C."

i have no idea where that quote came from, what i see is a couple of posters who are engaging in the fairy tale of ignoring first-hand experiences from people who have run multiple sets of e-rated tires, and posted their experiences with it.

 

[Robert Bills]

OK kid, whatever you say.

 

[OSV]

1. Everyone is not saying that E load rated tires are "stronger and more puncture resistant."

given what's been posted in this thread, i'm not surprised that some people might not understand how an e-rated tire could be stronger and more puncture resistant than than the c-rated tire that they have been touting.

To the contrary, an E load rating simply means that a tire has a a stiffer construction to carry a greater load at specified tire pressures than a C or D load rated tire. Load rating alone does not equate to strength or puncture resistance. Not all E load rated tires are created equally in that regard.

"On 04/01/2015 I wrote Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations:

Hi: I own a set of LT285-75R16 Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac E. Used on and off-road. 2011 Jeep Wrangler 2dr.. See www.geres.ca for pictures. Is my E Load Range (10 Ply Rating) more puncture resistant on the outside sidewall than a Load Range C or D Load Range? Some of my off-road colleagues say no---and I'm looking to the subject matter experts at Goodyear to help me discern and better understand if there is a difference or not in sidewall puncture resistance. Assumptions: Load Range: B, C, D, E, F | Ply Rating: 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 --- Cheers+ Thank you for your efforts. Mark
________________

On 04/02/2015 Consumer Relations replied.

Sent by: Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations
728 200 Innovation Way Akron, OH 44316-0001
Voice #: 800.321.2136 Fax #:330.796.6829

Thank you for contacting our web site and your interest in Wrangler Duratrac tires. The Load Range E is probably not more puncture resistant than a LR D but could be more puncture resistant than a LR C. Typically LR C's don't have the same ply fabric as E's but that would be the only difference and depending on what was trying to puncture the sidewall may or may not be an influence." http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176...-help-prevent-cuts-punctures-bruises-3091857/

 

[proper4wd]

OK Bobby Bills,

Keep on telling me that my tires "don't work".

 

[Stumpalump]

OK Bobby Bills,

Keep on telling me that my tires "don't work".

They work on your bro-dozer. You still sporting those Crome truck-nuts on that thing?

 

[proper4wd]