Toyota now

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
Not sure if you all saw this article yet but I personally believe this a first by any media outlet to finally lay it on the line and tell it the way it is. Kudo’s to Popular Mechanics! I have been saying exactly this all along.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html

I tend do believe them seeing how they did such a good job of debunking those kid's 9/11 conspricy video, Loose Bowels, er, Change.
 

jim65wagon

Well-known member
Are you trying to tell me, that it's not my car doing funky things....it's me doing funky things!!??? Driver error! Well, I've been so insulted in my life! How dare you think that I could make a mistake at all.....I know where the brake pedal is....I know where the gas pedal is....afterall I've been driving a car for 30 years now....no way it was my fault!:elkgrin:
 

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
Are you trying to tell me, that it's not my car doing funky things....it's me doing funky things!!??? Driver error! Well, I've been so insulted in my life! How dare you think that I could make a mistake at all.....I know where the brake pedal is....I know where the gas pedal is....afterall I've been driving a car for 30 years now....no way it was my fault!:elkgrin:

You should already be calling that 1-800 lawyer I saw advertised the other night.:sombrero:
 

CanuckMariner/Nomad

Love having fun 😊 in the 🌞 by the ⛵ and the ⏳
Why is that these drivers do not simply turn off the ignition? How about putting the transmission in neutral? Why not check the floor mat occasionally to see it is aligned/placed properly? Seems to me it might be mostly driver error!

This would be similar to someone shaving or putting on make-up while driving...go figure? I am sure you have seen some drivers with an inordinate amount of garbage or junk on the floor. Some people just do not look after their vehicle and then expect it to run forever. How many daily drivers/owners, even check or change their transmission fluid/steering fluid? Maintenance is everything, nothing lasts forever without care.
 

Overdrive

Adventurer
(linked article is to Ford Crown Vics catching fire)

Still happens? The news article you linked to is 8 years old!

But yes, many Crown Vics caught fire upon being rear-ended at 75 mph. It wasn't Toyotas catching fire because Crown Vics are/were 85% of the police vehicle market, not Toyota.

Crown Vics had been tested safe in rear-end collisions up to 55 mph (I think all cars sold in the US are?). But the dynamics change a great deal at 65+ mph.

While I'm not defending Ford's early stance on the problem, they have since taken many steps to minimize fires in those high speed collisions. Since '07, Crown Vics have an optional Fire Suppression System which activates automatically during a fire, or can be triggered manually at any time by the driver or passenger. There has also been much training to teach cops to store items such as rifles, shotguns, crowbars, etc., in a manner where they cannot poke a hole in the gas tank if the car is rear-ended--which was proven to be a cause of some fires.

Sorry for intruding on the Toyota party goin' on here...continue on. :beer:
 

jim65wagon

Well-known member
Why is that these drivers do not simply turn off the ignition? How about putting the transmission in neutral? Why not check the floor mat occasionally to see it is aligned/placed properly? Seems to me it might be mostly driver error!

The lady I saw on the telly testified that she put the transmission in every gear, including park, stood on the brake with both feet, and was still accelerating (just how long can a vehicle continue to accelerate before it hits the speed limiter?)....and she called her husband on her cell phone...
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
I work in the vehicle manufacturing world so I was curious to watch both days of the hearings on CSPAN3 to see how things would unravel, as I am sure there will be fallout that will affect all manufacturers as a result. It was obvious that lady was well coached by a lawyer. I am not calling her a liar….I just don’t believe things happened exactly the way she so vividly recalls. And the state trooper and his family in CA, I can't for the life of me figure out why he didn't shift his loaner Lexus in Neutral. Sad deal.

On the other hand, I had to laugh when the Michigan State Rep crawled on his soap box about how the car supposedly would not stop when she put it into Reverse. He carried on about this for a good minute or so.

Well, had he known as much about automotive safety standards as the thought he did he would have known that absolutely NOTHING will happen on modern cars if you toss the transmission into reverse while moving forward. This was a government safety standard that was created way back in the 60’s to prevent safety issues by driver’s accidently shifting a car into reverse while cruising. Old automatic transmissions of the 50’s and early 60’s days would lock up the rear wheels if a person accidently shifted them into reverse. Later transmissions do nothing when shifted in to reverse. If you are scared to try it on your own car wait until you get your next rental car. It works like a starter motor on a late model car. Once the car is started…you cannot scratch the starter into the flywheel by trying to start it again while it is already running.

Mr. Super Southern Illinois Auto Technology instructor dude could have fielded that comment but he was probably figuring out how he was going to spend all of his money he is earning from the lawyers he is acting as a hired gun and lap dog to.

In the small town I live in there have been several accidents where cars have driven into the front windows of stores, etc. One even resulted in a fatality at a Barnes & Noble book store. Another from a month or so ago drove into our Historic Riverwalk district. Guess what the drivers all had to say?? “I don’t know what happened…the car just took off”. The interesting part is none of these vehicles were Toyotas! Had they been driving Toyotas they would have been given immunity for their careless driving and became millionaires instead of taking ownership for their own actions.

Toyota is getting screwed in all of this! As I have been saying all along…this Toyota “Throttlegate” debacle is much more about politics than automotive safety. If you watched the actual hearings it was obvious.
 

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
I work in the vehicle manufacturing world so I was curious to watch both days of the hearings on CSPAN3 to see how things would unravel, as I am sure there will be fallout that will affect all manufacturers as a result. It was obvious that lady was well coached by a lawyer. I am not calling her a liar….I just don’t believe things happened exactly the way she so vividly recalls. And the state trooper and his family in CA, I can't for the life of me figure out why he didn't shift his loaner Lexus in Neutral. Sad deal.

On the other hand, I had to laugh when the Michigan State Rep crawled on his soap box about how the car supposedly would not stop when she put it into Reverse. He carried on about this for a good minute or so.

Well, had he known as much about automotive safety standards as the thought he did he would have known that absolutely NOTHING will happen on modern cars if you toss the transmission into reverse while moving forward. This was a government safety standard that was created way back in the 60’s to prevent safety issues by driver’s accidently shifting a car into reverse while cruising. Old automatic transmissions of the 50’s and early 60’s days would lock up the rear wheels if a person accidently shifted them into reverse. Later transmissions do nothing when shifted in to reverse. If you are scared to try it on your own car wait until you get your next rental car. It works like a starter motor on a late model car. Once the car is started…you cannot scratch the starter into the flywheel by trying to start it again while it is already running.

Mr. Super Southern Illinois Auto Technology instructor dude could have fielded that comment but he was probably figuring out how he was going to spend all of his money he is earning from the lawyers he is acting as a hired gun and lap dog to.

In the small town I live in there have been several accidents where cars have driven into the front windows of stores, etc. One even resulted in a fatality at a Barnes & Noble book store. Another from a month or so ago drove into our Historic Riverwalk district. Guess what the drivers all had to say?? “I don’t know what happened…the car just took off”. The interesting part is none of these vehicles were Toyotas! Had they been driving Toyotas they would have been given immunity for their careless driving and became millionaires instead of taking ownership for their own actions.

Toyota is getting screwed in all of this! As I have been saying all along…this Toyota “Throttlegate” debacle is much more about politics than automotive safety. If you watched the actual hearings it was obvious.

Its amazing the responses here and what gets posted on a Michigan 4x4 board. Read and enjoy. I gave up on trying to make a point with them.

http://www.michiganwheelers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16043
 

El Guapo

Observer
I'm afraid the US government scrutiny and criticism of Toyota will not end until GM has surpassed Toyota in total sales and market share. Unfortuantely for GM I see that as extremely unlikely to EVER happen, and before it does, it will become grotesquely obvious that it's been a witchhunt from the beginning in an effort to save the government controlled GM, and any further criticism of Toyota will lose credibility.

And this is not a "conspiracy" theory? C'mon people- the world is not out to get Toyota. They messed up (for years) and were, in true Japanese fashion 'sweeping under the rug' many of these shortcomings- for years.

Just like the financial situation of this country, it finally caught up with them. And for those of you that quote the 'drinking of the media kool-aid'- i guess you should also stop drinking the 'Toyota Kool-aid'.

They have quality problems . major ones. This is no conspiracy. They will solve them, no doubt but hopefully this opens the public's eyes to the fact that while they are extremely good at quality; they are NOT perfect. Not even close. Welcome to the real world in the automotive industry.

fire away.:coffeedrink:
 

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
Wasn't there a similar uproar back in the late 80s/early 90s (IIRC) involving the same thing happening to Audi cars? And if memory serves me right (and it often doesn't) wasn't it later debunked and proven to be all driver inflicted issues?

But look how well this will work out for us all. The Gove'mentwill get to make more safety regulations to protect us all, force all car makers to add even more nanny gadgets to their line-ups, raising the price of cars even more. Which in turn generates more sales tax revenue. Which will be diverted to whatever special interst group cries the most. It's a Win/Win situation.....




If your a bureaucrat or a lobbyist.
 

jim65wagon

Well-known member
You know what the absolute worst part of all this is?

With a brake override in the darn car I won't be able to do a powerbrakin' long and smoky burnout down your street anymore!.....well, if I bought a new car that is.
 

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
You know what the absolute worst part of all this is?

With a brake override in the darn car I won't be able to do a powerbrakin' long and smoky burnout down your street anymore!.....well, if I bought a new car that is.

I had '09 Camry for a loaner when the local dealer coated my Tacoma frame. I tried doing that a couple times (what can I say, it was a loaner) and I didn't have much luck.

I did like the car though.
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
And this is not a "conspiracy" theory? C'mon people- the world is not out to get Toyota. They messed up (for years) and were, in true Japanese fashion 'sweeping under the rug' many of these shortcomings- for years.

Just like the financial situation of this country, it finally caught up with them. And for those of you that quote the 'drinking of the media kool-aid'- i guess you should also stop drinking the 'Toyota Kool-aid'.

They have quality problems . major ones. This is no conspiracy. They will solve them, no doubt but hopefully this opens the public's eyes to the fact that while they are extremely good at quality; they are NOT perfect. Not even close. Welcome to the real world in the automotive industry.

fire away.:coffeedrink:


You almost make it sound like no other manufacturer has any issues, which is furthest from the truth. They ALL have issues and NONE of them are forth coming with them until they absolutely have to. I served my automotive career sentence in Detroit for 6 years before moving to a field position and have college alumni, previous work colleagues, and contacts at pretty much all manufacturers and suppliers. We all talk and the one thing we all have in common are problems.

I don’t necessarily think there is a conspiracy going on, but I do find it odd that the NHTSA and the media is being so hard on Toyota especially after the US bailouts (when US cars have major issues too), Japanese cash for clunkers program ordeal, and even one state rep came right out and said during the hearings that he was not happy Toyota was doing business in Iran. This sounds a lot more like a politic driven firestorm than automotive safety to me. If Toyota’s name being drug through the mud wasn’t a planned attack then NHTSA (specifically loud mouthed Ray LaHood) should have thought it through a little more. As he said many times over the course of the hearings….. “Perception is reality”. And the perception is the government is giving the home town players a break while beating the tar out of Toyota.

On the other hand, I can also see how Ray LaHood at NHTSA could say Toyota was a little safety deaf. Toyota has grown quickly in the US in the past 30 years and may have gotten a little bit cocky basking in the glory of their nice new found chunk of the US market share. That is the same over confident corporate culture that help GM fall from 50% market share to less than 10%. Ford has been there too.

In fact, any minute now I suspect a great deal of recalls to be coming out of Ford. It seems the country has this odd pride in Ford Motor Company and rewarding them for not taking bailout money. What people forget (because the media didn't make it their #1 new story) is Ford went broke first and secured government sponsored money well over a year before the automotive industry crisis became front page news. Ford has done a great job of paying those loans back but at what cost? The cost of taking a lot of short cuts and rushing products to market…. They have brought a lot of nice looking vehicles to market in a short time but at what cost? Time will tell. Ford has totally Forest Gumped themselves into becoming America’s fondest manufacturer. I have contacts at Ford suppliers that shake their heads at the lower spec limit parts that Ford now considers an upper level part in order to keep production costs down. I doubt when Ford’s turn comes all of their issues will be on the front page news.

I owe nothing to Toyota, I don’t even own one (not that I wouldn’t). In fact, if it wasn’t for GM, I wouldn’t have food on my table tonight or toys in the garage. I just have a strong opinion that Toyota is getting the short end of the stick on this and there will be fall out that will affect GM, Ford, Chrysler Group and the rest. The Government is not going to get this involved without creating a bunch of new laws that won’t ultimately drive up the cost of future vehicles. It is a shame the general population can't see what is really going on here.
 

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
You almost make it sound like no other manufacturer has any issues, which is furthest from the truth. They ALL have issues and NONE of them are forth coming with them until they absolutely have to. I served my automotive career sentence in Detroit for 6 years before moving to a field position and have college alumni, previous work colleagues, and contacts at pretty much all manufacturers and suppliers. We all talk and the one thing we all have in common are problems.

I don’t necessarily think there is a conspiracy going on, but I do find it odd that the NHTSA and the media is being so hard on Toyota especially after the US bailouts (when US cars have major issues too), Japanese cash for clunkers program ordeal, and even one state rep came right out and said during the hearings that he was not happy Toyota was doing business in Iran. This sounds a lot more like a politic driven firestorm than automotive safety to me. If Toyota’s name being drug through the mud wasn’t a planned attack then NHTSA (specifically loud mouthed Ray LaHood) should have thought it through a little more. As he said many times over the course of the hearings….. “Perception is reality”. And the perception is the government is giving the home town players a break while beating the tar out of Toyota.

On the other hand, I can also see how Ray LaHood at NHTSA could say Toyota was a little safety deaf. Toyota has grown quickly in the US in the past 30 years and may have gotten a little bit cocky basking in the glory of their nice new found chunk of the US market share. That is the same over confident corporate culture that help GM fall from 50% market share to less than 10%. Ford has been there too.

In fact, any minute now I suspect a great deal of recalls to be coming out of Ford. It seems the country has this odd pride in Ford Motor Company and rewarding them for not taking bailout money. What people forget (because the media didn't make it their #1 new story) is Ford went broke first and secured government sponsored money well over a year before the automotive industry crisis became front page news. Ford has done a great job of paying those loans back but at what cost? The cost of taking a lot of short cuts and rushing products to market…. They have brought a lot of nice looking vehicles to market in a short time but at what cost? Time will tell. Ford has totally Forest Gumped themselves into becoming America’s fondest manufacturer. I have contacts at Ford suppliers that shake their heads at the lower spec limit parts that Ford now considers an upper level part in order to keep production costs down. I doubt when Ford’s turn comes all of their issues will be on the front page news.

I owe nothing to Toyota, I don’t even own one (not that I wouldn’t). In fact, if it wasn’t for GM, I wouldn’t have food on my table tonight or toys in the garage. I just have a strong opinion that Toyota is getting the short end of the stick on this and there will be fall out that will affect GM, Ford, Chrysler Group and the rest. The Government is not going to get this involved without creating a bunch of new laws that won’t ultimately drive up the cost of future vehicles. It is a shame the general population can't see what is really going on here.

Well put.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
188,181
Messages
2,903,465
Members
229,665
Latest member
SANelson
Top