Xterra vs Pathfinder - Why Isn't the R51 More Popular As An Expo Rig?

[Triplesnake]

We need MOAR PICS! :sombrero:

Yes, more pics Lester. I'd like to see details of your roof rack and the lights you have on the front.

Since you mentioned being up on 3 wheels, I'll share this shot I took yesterday playing around on some rocks

...and this creek crossing in Llano county, TX on county road 315. See, we might be able to justify the snorkel :REExeSwimmingHL:

 

[LesterB]

Pretty mild, but a little bit of three wheel action near the end. I'll start a build page so as not to hijack this thread any further!

 

[LesterB]

Of course you could say that we wouldn't be on three wheels if we had enough flex.

 

[jhberria]

Love the pathfinder trail action!

 

[skibum315]

Of course you could say that we wouldn't be on three wheels if we had enough flex.

While your statement is true, on the face of it, the same could be said for any vehicle!

That picture of your R51 on the rock, up above, doesn't look any worse off than any number of similar pictures I've seen of similarly equipped trucks on NewX or Club Frontier ... in spite of assertions to the contrary (like those made by cparcell, as an example), I maintain significant faith in the R51's offroad chops.

If I ever get around to making the plunge on the R51 build that I'd love to try and do; when it's complete and has it's first couple of trail rides in the books, it'll get a custom plate ... either MMY-MBL (Mommy Mobile) or SCCRMBL (Soccer Mobile). Then I'll take it to Moab for GONE ... just have to save a few more pennies and find that perfect starting point, we'll see if I ever actually get there.

 

[justbecause]

It'll be as awesome as that Fronty, eventually! Triplesnake, you should! They deserve a snorkel! It's just a 3" hole! And lots of silicon. The articulation really isn't that bad. The rock I'm on isn't tiny, and my suspension is stock, just without swaybars. I am locked front and back, so it will go anywhere the tire size will allow (31" HTs here, 33" MTs as soon as I pick up some wheels for them. 37's if I start dreaming about full Titan swaps. What's welding a couple spring mounts? And ditching the mechs for ARBs. And swapping in the VK56. May as well supercharge that. Gonna need a real transfer case. Too bad my budget is about $3.50.). ��

it does not share a t-case with the frontier/xterra? Or do we have different definitions of "real"

 

[skibum315]

it does not share a t-case with the frontier/xterra?

Good catch ... I'd also wonder what Lester means by that. My understanding was that the t-cases all had the same basic guts and that the R51's was just a bit more complex with the addition of an "Auto" setting ... allowing it to serve in an awd mode, whereby the actual connection between front and rear would be computer controlled and not locked. But when in 4x4 or 4-Low, that it is essentially the same as the N50's and D40's t-case.

 

[LesterB]

Oh I just meant a big nasty Atlas t-case! The only difference in the underpinnings (that I'm aware of). Between the r51 and the d40 and n50(?) is the r51 has independent rear suspension. Even the diff is really the same, carrier and r and p are identical, the c200k is just solid. I guess the manual tran x and fronty have a d44 variant, but the autos are really similar.

 

[skibum315]

That's been my understanding as well ... really wish they'd carry the F-Alpha platform forwards, I love the interchangeability of the models.

As for the Atlas, why do you think it is that I can't decide between wanting a 2wd or a 4wd as the starting point for a build?! lol ... great minds and all that. :friday:

 

[LesterB]

That's been my understanding as well ... really wish they'd carry the F-Alpha platform forwards, I love the interchangeability of the models.

As for the Atlas, why do you think it is that I can't decide between wanting a 2wd or a 4wd as the starting point for a build?! lol ... great minds and all that. :friday:

It does make modifying cheap and easy. Relatively. To steer back towards the topic, while I would reaaalllly love a 4 speed T/C, this is my overland rig, and the stock driveline is sufficient for that purpose. Swapping in the M205 and R230 ups it from sufficient to pretty good, and the V8 R51 is already so equipped. I would posit that the R51, with one locker, a winch, and 255/85-16 tires is as capable as anyone really needs a rig to be, and with the amount of unavoidable pavement and mild gravel roads, more comfortable, and perhaps even more valuable as an expedition vehicle for its IRS. If most of your driving is in North America or Western Europe anyway. If you're making more than one global circumnavigation, ehhhh, maybe not the best choice.

 

[drbandkgb]

Neither the Gen 2 Xterra / Frontier / Pathy have a real transfer case.. ITs all push button bs now..

 

[Fargo]

Why isn't the Pathfinder a more popular expedition vehicle? People aren't going to like this answer, but I think it has a lot to do with image. Toyota has built a better reputation as an offroading vehicle. So to be part of the in crowd, other offroads want to have Toyotas too. OK. That statement may not be 100% the only reason, but you know their is truth in it. I understand that Toyotas might have better aftermarket support. So that would give them the edge. I think the bigger question you have to ask yourself is what do you need?

I have a Jeep Wrangler that I take on vacation every couple years to do some offroading. Its great, I know I have way more capability than I will ever need for the trails I drive. But a couple years ago we needed a 3 row suv for my typical family hauling chores and vacations. Coming from overlanding with the LJ I really wanted something more capable than the typcical crossover SUV. My wife wasn't so sure. So we looked at a wide range of vehicles. We found the Pathy with its body on frame construction was actually quiter and drove way better than any of the crossovers we looked at. We also liked having the option of a real transfer case with 4lo and not just AWD. We looked at 4Runners briefly, but looking at the used market, we found 4 runners cost twice as much as the Pathfinder. We just didn't see the advantage of it.

Now if I didn't have the Jeep or was doing serious rock crawling, I might want an Xterra or Tacoma or something smaller. But the reality is that my R51 Pathfinder would likely be able to do all the Jeep trails I've ever done in my Jeep. So this year we are taking the Pathy on a long trip to the west coast. I hope to do some trail riding. Nothing major. But I have no concerns at all about the capabilities of my Pathfinder and what I will be able to do.

My Pathfinder is all stock except I put on a taller but skinnier 255/70R17 (vs stock 265/65/R17) tire. This gives me a little extra clearance but will not affect the ability to stuff my wheels into the wells either. If I wanted more offroad ability I think some Jeep JK takeoffs (255/75R17) would be great.

To sum it up. The R51 pathfinder is a great overlanding vehicle when your overlanding includes thousands of miles of paved or gravel road along with stretches of forest service road and the occasional rocky trail. If you want something more serious get a 4dr Jeep JK.

 

[Dalko43]

Brand recognition likely plays a big part in it. Toyota 4runners, Tacomas, and Tundras (plus the LC) have a lot of recognition in the offroading circles. Nissan also hasn't been doing a good job of marketing itself to the SUV/truck buyers:
- The milked the last gen Xterra for everything it was worth for 10 years straight without really changing anything, until they let it quietly die with no replacement....not a whole lot of effort to win over consumers IMO.
- The early Xterra's had transmission fluid issues (SMOD), and the rear leaf springs sagged over time. Even though those issues were either resolved or had quick fixes, the perception was that Toyota's equivalent (the 4runner) was better.
- They flipped flop back and forth on the pathfinder, first transitioning to unibody in the 2nd gen, then back to BOF with the 3rd gen (but independent rear suspension for some reason), then back to unibody with the current gen (essentially joining the ever increasing ranks of car-based cross-overs). Nissan just never seemed committed to marketing the pathfinder as a hardcore, robust offroader in the same way the 4runner or Jeep Wrangler were marketed.

Nissan I think made a good move by putting a smaller Cummins in the current Titan, so we'll see how that sells. But they pretty much quit the body-on-frame SUV market, which is a shame.

 

[Fargo]

You make a very good points. Nissan has done a poor job of marketing the Xterra and the Pathfinder for the offroad crowd. Also I think your point about the Pathfinder flip flopping from body on frame to unibody is fair. It all adds up to lack of commitment to the market.

Its really a shame they quit the Xterra at the same time they moved the Pathy back to unibody. The Xterra really could have filled that niche that is left open by the demise of the FJ Cruiser as well. They really should have kept the Xterra and even offered a larger XterraXL.

 

[Strizzo]

There was a guy at GONE Moab last year in an r51, he had a small lift and a/t tired but seemed to have a bit of difficulty when the rig got crossed up, factory sways I guess play well in the rocks. Having at least one locker would have probably solved most of his challenges though. He seemed to struggle on fins more than the "stocker no locker" xterras with just a rear sway removed.

As for the diesel Titan, I haven't heard great things about them, I read somewhere that the Xterra that they basically quit on after 2011, averaged more sales per month it's last year than the new Titan did the first couple months of this year.