2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[DorB]

Respectfully whats up with your slowly

It’s my off-road motto and the tapatalk signature.. obviously missed..

I'm interested in the reliability and durability of the new defender, plus the fact that it doesn't look like it needs every nut and bolt upgraded or fixed to make it into a comfirtable, reliable, safe and efficient overlander for my family. I have a deposit down.

My point was that as a LR, I’m sure it will be capable off road, and maybe LR has eventually changed the QC signature day from Monday morning to another day of the week.. and eventually will turn into a reliable SUV.
Time will tell.

But.. for my opinion, the sum of changes in this new platform deserve a different name, and is not the Defender’s next stage.

Honestly,
Do you see this platform serving in NGO’s?
Or carrying loads in Africa/Australia/Middle East or 3rd world environment?

An open version in the Kruger park or as a reconnaissance vehicle?
If you can’t mark any of the above, then it’s not a Defender, but a new LR platform.

 

[DorB]

The Best Defender Tease Video Yet! - Expedition Portal

Many of us are anxiously awaiting the launch of the new 2020 Defender, and this compilation video is the most revealing and exciting one yet. It shows some critical insights, including what are clearly 18-inch wheels over a smaller brake package, long-travel independent suspension, and...

expeditionportal.com

It will look like this...

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Thanks for the corrected link.

Nice video.
Well edited to show what they wanted.
Looks very capable, but it’s an edited video.. you see only the positive points.
I’ve been testing vehicles in the past.
videos like this, are usually a combination of different vehicles shots merged into one stream video.

I’m waiting for an independent review, Scott?

 

[blackangie]

Thanks for the corrected link.

Nice video.
Well edited to show what they wanted.
Looks very capable, but it’s an edited video.. you see only the positive points.
I’ve been testing vehicles in the past.
videos like this, are usually a combination of different vehicles shots merged into one stream video.

I’m waiting for an independent review, Scott?

Scott is independent and reviewed that vid in high detail, which you are ignoring after denying it existed.

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[DorB]

Scott is independent and reviewed that vid in high detail, which you are ignoring after denying it existed.

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I didn’t deny anything, I was referring mistakenly to the wrong link, and I corrected my note afterwards.

Scott reviewed an edited video, as you ignore to accept.
He didn’t held the wheel or drive it, did I miss something?

I don’t know what’s your experience in photo editing or vehicle testing, but From my personal experience in both, there could be huge difference between reviewing an edited video to what happens in reality.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

It’s my off-road motto and the tapatalk signature.. obviously missed..

My point was that as a LR, I’m sure it will be capable off road, and maybe LR has eventually changed the QC signature day from Monday morning to another day of the week.. and eventually will turn into a reliable SUV.
Time will tell.

But.. for my opinion, the sum of changes in this new platform deserve a different name, and is not the Defender’s next stage.

Honestly,
Do you see this platform serving in NGO’s?
Or carrying loads in Africa/Australia/Middle East or 3rd world environment?

An open version in the Kruger park or as a reconnaissance vehicle?
If you can’t mark any of the above, then it’s not a Defender, but a new LR platform.

Land Rover clearly has no issue exploiting the prestige of their model names. It used to be that the Range Rover badge meant something, now almost every model they make is a “Range Rover.” Same with the Discovery, the Disco Sport is basically a Ford Escape.

I’d be curious to see the numbers of previous new Defenders being sold to NGO’s and tour companies. I know a lot of them are out there, but I wonder if they had switched to another platform for the most part anyways.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

It’s a factory press release.. not Scott’s words.

Sorry for being a part popper.. but it’s not a Defender, at least not for me.

Defender it’s all about rugged simple off-road vehicle.
Not a Disco in disguise wannabe.

Toyota 70’ series is a living proof that even on 2019 you can build such a truck, if you want.

So LR doesn’t want, and tries to blindfold the People and tell them it’s not a Duck.
Well, it’s a duck.

Those of you who own a defender, hold on to it.
They’re the last of its kind.








Slowly..

The problem is, everyone in NA thinks they want a Defender, but if they actually brought the old version here it would fly off the shelves and then they would be resold within 6 months. Unfortunately, people care about features and gimmicks more than they care about function these days.

I have no issue with technology that actually makes things better, for example traction control or air suspension. Yes, it’s more complicated, but it provides real benefits. Things like the later LR4 shifting knob that rises up from the console doesn’t do anything beneficial, it’s just an expensive part to wear out and break, leaving you stranded after a coke is spilled on it.

Your typical Defender owner in the US isn’t the same as them in other parts of the world. Due to their cost and rarity, they are for the most part status sybols and collectibles, taken out for a spin on a perfect day and parked again. There are at least a dozen here in town, I’ve never seen one out in the National Forest or with a spec of dirt on it.

I have a friend in central Florida that rebuilds them for people an uses them as intended, but it’s rare.

 

[blackangie]

I didn’t deny anything, I was referring mistakenly to the wrong link, and I corrected my note afterwards.

Scott reviewed an edited video, as you ignore to accept.
He didn’t held the wheel or drive it, did I miss something?

I don’t know what’s your experience in photo editing or vehicle testing, but From my personal experience in both, there could be huge difference between reviewing an edited video to what happens in reality.

Even after being shown the correct link you didnt mention 1 thing about scotts entire article, just "its an edited video" of course its edited they are not going to put a camcorder home video online.
There are about 10 journalists including topgear whom have been behind the wheel which say similar things.

There is zero 4x4 action in that video that even looks fake. If you can see anything please let us know.

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[DieselRanger]

You had me until you said Land Rover still makes superior off-road vehicles to the competition. Maybe the Defender will be as off-road capable as a Wrangler or reliable as a Land Cruiser or as old-school cool as a G-Wagon, but there's not a chance you can say that anything they've built in the last several years is superior to any one of them except maybe in on-road manners compared to a Wrangler; just be sure not to even think about touching the infotainment system in the LR!

Every vehicle on the market gets infotainment complaints. They all suck, until they get Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. I don't even know why automakers bother with their own any more. Since my infotainment got upgraded with Android Auto, I don't even use the native infotainment any more, and it's perfect.

I drive a 2017 D5 HSE Td6. It regularly goes everywhere highly modified Wranglers and JGCs go in the Colorado Rockies, *and* it's a pleasurable experience getting to the trailhead as well. Two corners in the air - no wheelspin, no problem; 30" deep creek crossings like a rain puddle. All I've done to it is put AT's on it. Next on the list are rock sliders, and some 18" Compomotives so I can get a little more sidewall. Eventually maybe some extra lights and a winch, we'll see. Granted, I'm not running Poughkeepsie Gulch, but you're not running it with a bone-stock Wrangler either. Nobody is, and the Discovery was never a rock crawler anyway. Wranglers aren't even rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications.

It's okay, I know they're rare and you've never seen one, much less driven one, so your skepticism can be excused, Maybe you think that videos of bone-stock Range Rover Sports going over Black Bear Pass or D5's on Poison Spider Mesa are produced by the same people who faked the moon landing, but trust me, they'll do 90%+ what a Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited with $15,000+ worth of mods will do, and 100% of what an unmodified one will do and are a nicer place to do it in. The Defender won't be any different.

But you don't care, because you'll never buy one no matter how good they are. You're a Jeep guy, and that's OK.

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[DieselRanger]

I think that in 50 years, people will relate to this change in model as the ridge-line of the defender model, which started its descent.

In 50 years you may not be allowed to drive yourself on public roads, because you will be a hazard to internetworked autonomous vehicles and their occupants.

A looks a look. Compare the current 911 to the 1963 model and the only thing that's even close is a silhouette line drawing. Purists ************** when they went away from an air-cooled engine...but it still anchors Porsche's lineup today. If they never evolved, they wouldn't exist. Let CARB do their thing and you won't be able to buy a fossil fuel powered Wrangler anywhere in the US in ten years.

So it's all relative.

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[TexasTJ]

Might be the best rendering I’ve seen yet and makes it look better that the Bond leak.

 

[jmodz]

But.. for my opinion, the sum of changes in this new platform deserve a different name, and is not the Defender’s next stage.

Honestly,
Do you see this platform serving in NGO’s?
Or carrying loads in Africa/Australia/Middle East or 3rd world environment?

An open version in the Kruger park or as a reconnaissance vehicle?
If you can’t mark any of the above, then it’s not a Defender, but a new LR platform.

That is an odd bar to set for a car marketed to consumers. I’m not sure many people around the world would enjoy driving a vehicle built for those specific purposes as it would likely have a lot of compromises to on road drivability. Take the FJC, it looked a little odd, adopted a heritage name plate, and was built to be excellent off-road. It sold well the first 2-3 years, and then sales plummeted after all the enthusiasts bought it. I owned an FJC and loved it, but there was a reason it only sold in lower quantities and to people who appreciated it. Frankly it handled poorly, the ride was dismal, and the blind spots massive. LR’s goal with the defender is to make something that is as capable as a stock FJC, which I think they have done but have it more desirable to a larger group of people. That way it doesn’t turn into an enthusiast car that sells well for a very short period of time but then is discontinued. LR probably can’t afford the defender to be that type of vehicle. Sure we could argue that if they made it with solid axles and body on frame (because let’s be honest the independent suspension is the issue for you here) that it would turn into a Jeep Wrangler and sell massive amounts every year, or it could turn into G-Wagen which sells just a couple of thousand a year or the FJC which sold well for a very short time. I think the latter two would be more likely scenarios for the defender, as it is a name plate only enthusiasts know in the U.S. and needs to appeal to a broad audience if LR hopes it helps their financial situation.

 

[JeepColorado]

Every vehicle on the market gets infotainment complaints. They all suck, until they get Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. I don't even know why automakers bother with their own any more. Since my infotainment got upgraded with Android Auto, I don't even use the native infotainment any more, and it's perfect.

I drive a 2017 D5 HSE Td6. It regularly goes everywhere highly modified Wranglers and JGCs go in the Colorado Rockies, *and* it's a pleasurable experience getting to the trailhead as well. Two corners in the air - no wheelspin, no problem; 30" deep creek crossings like a rain puddle. All I've done to it is put AT's on it. Next on the list are rock sliders, and some 18" Compomotives so I can get a little more sidewall. Eventually maybe some extra lights and a winch, we'll see. Granted, I'm not running Poughkeepsie Gulch, but you're not running it with a bone-stock Wrangler either. Nobody is, and the Discovery was never a rock crawler anyway. Wranglers aren't even rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications.

It's okay, I know they're rare and you've never seen one, much less driven one, so your skepticism can be excused, Maybe you think that videos of bone-stock Range Rover Sports going over Black Bear Pass or D5's on Poison Spider Mesa are produced by the same people who faked the moon landing, but trust me, they'll do 90%+ what a Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited with $15,000+ worth of mods will do, and 100% of what an unmodified one will do and are a nicer place to do it in. The Defender won't be any different.

But you don't care, because you'll never buy one no matter how good they are. You're a Jeep guy, and that's OK.

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So I'm not going to make the assumptions about you that you make about me- I've had numerous experiences with LRs; actually test drove a Discovery last weekend because I'm interested. I've seen them some off-road, admittedly very, very little- because you so rarely every see one off-road and I think that says something about them.

"Wranglers aren't rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications"....huh? Are you familiar with the Wrangler Rubicon?- it'll do anything on it's namesake trail near Lake Tahoe and walk up almost any incline in Moab right off the show room floor and that's before you put the 35s on it that can fit straight from the factory.

 

[mpinco]

The back-and-forth is entertaining! As for the Defender we will know if it was a success in ............. 2 years. Why 2 years? Because there will be an initial surge that will then level off to the real desirability/demand/sustainability of a vehicle. It takes at least 2 years to build a reputation, good or bad. That's fine. We can all wait.

 

[DorB]

Even after being shown the correct link you didnt mention 1 thing about scotts entire article,

Because the issue is not Scott’s proven ability to professionally Annalise a video.
He analyses this new platform very clearly, but the issue is does this LR creation deserves to be called “Defender”.
I think not.

Don’t get me wrong, I highly regard Scott’s writing as professional and it’s one of the reasons I subscribe to overland journal, the professionalism and first-hand experience.

don’t turn it into the main issue.

As this treed evolves, I’m wandering how many of those who yearn for this SUV, actually drove a Defender.

 

[DorB]

That is an odd bar to set for a car marketed to consumers. .

That was the bar which the Defender and alike where measured.
Exactly because it was on a different bar.
And if it cannot reach that bar, it’s a different platform, maybe good in its own bar, but not a Defender..

It’s not only the solid axles or body on frame, it’s the weight carrying ability, open version, mechanical simplicity, and more.