MOguy
Explorer
When I hear inserting I think of somebody going out and looking for it. Intervening as stepping up in a situation you are already in.
Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping
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When I hear inserting I think of somebody going out and looking for it. Intervening as stepping up in a situation you are already in.
Lots of grey area and fairly perspective-based. 10 people may have 10 different ideas on what exactly "inserting" or "intervening" means. I am more likely to err in favor of helping someone in need.
MOguy
Explorer
definitely
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
AMEN!!!
mezmochill
Is outside
Hi guys, now that you've convinced me, where/how should I carry?
Thanks for your interesting responses!!!
Thanks for your interesting responses!!!
Based off your previous responses in this thread, maybe a bb gun locked in a cabinet?
Why are you trolling?
brushogger
Explorer
Check out the local firing ranges and find a qualified instructor you're comfortable with. (1) get training, (2) try a selection of firearms and pick a caliber and model you're comfortable with, (3) heeding advice from the aforementioned instructor, try a variety of holsters until you find one you like. (4) practice.
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
Since You're such an antigunner, do we REALLY need to tell you where you can carry????
Also, since you are in "lepiotaland" why don't you treat yourself to a nice variety of fried lepiotas for dinner!!!
Since you don't like guns why are you trolling this site so much?? Not enough fun to be had trolling hillary and baracks websites??
rayra
Expedition Leader
hear hear, mezmo is obviously trolling.
This is an old thread, but IMHO a person would have to be pretty naive not to carry. There are a lot of bad folks out there .
Whether I'm driving to and from or wheeling or on a trek I always have weapons .
That's right plural ! I don't want to have to try to get to a weapon .....but then again I have a CCI permit and I always have a 40 cal on my person.
Rather not leave anything to chance.
Mike
Whether I'm driving to and from or wheeling or on a trek I always have weapons .
That's right plural ! I don't want to have to try to get to a weapon .....but then again I have a CCI permit and I always have a 40 cal on my person.
Rather not leave anything to chance.
Mike
I don't feel a *need* to carry a weapon while camping but I do choose to carry one all the time. I'm speaking of a handgun of course, a Springfield XD45 Compact to be specific. I grew up around guns. They were just a tool like any other. A fun tool to practice with, but just another tool. I applied for my concealed carry permit on my 21st birthday and have carried every day since it was issued 30 days later. In 24 years of daily carry my weapon has only saved my life once. The one and only time I've ever pointed a gun at anyone it was a guy about to smash my head in with a pair of bolt cutters. I'm damned glad I didn't have to pull the trigger, but even so I couldn't sleep or eat for more than 48 hours afterwards. Apparently staring Death in the face can have that effect.
Back to the real topic at hand. I have a house and property that borders an extremely brush-choked State Forest with a bunch of off road opportunities. I started out carrying a Walther PPK/S in .380ACP and always felt that with my training and marksmanship it was plenty for two legged predators. I carried it for 17 years and it's the gun I drew on the tweaker with the bolt cutters. After seeing a large cougar in our yard at the house in the forest a couple times I called the game warden. He came out to meet with us and give us some pointers. Take down the bird feeders, play a radio outside 24/7, cut the brush back further, etc. His biggest recommendation was to get a larger caliber carry gun. I asked him what he carried and if he got to choose it. He said their whole department is allowed to carry whatever they want and everyone carries .45s with +P self defense rounds intended for use on humans. The reasoning: Other than humans Cougars are the number one threat these guys face. Cougars are lean, muscular, thin skinned mammals that range from 75~350 pounds. In short, they are very much like humans in anatomy so whatever works good on humans works good on cougars. He personally had killed three cougars in the bush with his sidearm in the line of duty. Two were charging him, the third was charging another warden. Cougars do NOT mock charge. When startled (typically if they're sleeping or occupied stalking something) their instinct is straight up attack, not flee. If they hear you coming or know where you are you will likely never see them and they'll slink away silently. The warden said if you ever see a cougar kitten in the wild you're already dead! So I bought a .45 and some +P HSTs for carry on his recommendation. I got even more training as well, and started going shooting weekly instead of monthly. Doing short range trips to shoot 150-200 rounds rather than going out in the woods for a whole day of shooting all my guns.
I always have my .45 on my person, I carry it IWB with a reload the same way on my weak side. Nobody ever knows it's there unless I want them to know. I recommend that anyone that wants to be armed in the woods start with a handgun. A shotgun in your tent or truck is useless if the threat is between you and it, or the threat is a large animal and you can't really move or have to gather your kids. The great thing about a carried handgun is it's always there and you can use it with one hand up to and including at contact distance while you're being attacked. Anytime I'm going into the woods my Saiga .308 goes in the truck. I don't imagine I'll ever have a need for it but when you own a tool like that it seems silly to go someplace remote with large wild animals and sketchy humans and not bring it along. I built it with an Ace folding stock so it's very compact to store and is fully functional with the stock folded or extended. If I ever had to hike out of the woods the Saiga would be locked and loaded and slung on my back in case of bear problems. Guess I do have a valid reason to carry it in the truck.
A friend from Alaska says "People who carry bear spray up here end up being grizzly poop." He carries a S&W 460V on his hip whenever he's in the woods and slings a rifle when it doesn't impact his activities too much.One of the things a bunch of the anti-gun overlanders earlier in this thread need to realize is that in the Northwestern continental US they only scratch the surface of getting off the beaten path, if they come here at all. This is the land of beating your truck to death on trees and branches, and not little ones. I go places where my Pathfinder's stock roof rack barely clears dozens of huge tree branches.... and then I go 20 miles farther. Anyone with a RTT would have to stop five miles before it got tight for my narrow, nearly stock height Pathy. From what I see on this site, 95% of overlanders won't go anywhere that would even require locking the hubs on my truck. In this part of the world that means you aren't going anywhere even close to remote. The brush in the forests here is so thick you don't even have to think about taking a 200+ yard shot at a deer, you'll never see 100 yards! If you're on foot you won't see 50 yards most places. It's perfect territory for ambush predators like cougars. Unfortunately lots of Mexican cartel-funded pot grows happen here as do people cooking crack and meth and who knows what else. They always go as far out in the woods as they can get to avoid being caught. (That **** smells unbelievably horrid, I've driven up on a few meth-cooking travel trailer camps in recent years.) If you're ever out in the woods and catch a whiff of a sharp chemical smell you can't identify STOP and back out immediately, it might save your life!
To the people that think those of us that choose to carry guns go through life afraid and that's why we carry you are 100% wrong. I don't intend to die a defenseless victim, but I'm not afraid of whatever life may throw at me. A part of the reason I carry a gun is that I feel it is my duty as a good citizen and good human to be armed and able to help defend the weak should they need it. Concealed carry permit holders have the lowest instance of criminal activity of any group the gov't keeps stats on. I'm not one of you pansies that stands by with their cell phone camera while some 300 pound ****************** beats a woman to death in the street. (Have you seen the video? There are five or six different cell camera views on YouTube and not one person did a thing.) I'm not going to commit suicide in a feeble attempt to save a stranger against impossible odds, but I will help anyone if I have a reasonable chance of success. Doing any less is not acceptable to a man with a conscience and a spine. Statistics say just drawing a handgun ends the confrontation in more than 90% of all cases. If there had been more time/distance I'm sure I wouldn't have needed to point my pistol at that crackhead, he'd have dropped the bolt cutters when he saw the gun. You are safer because good people like myself and others carry.
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Mr510 great great post. Articulate and full of the truth about explaining why some have the need to carry. Some will probably doubt your suggestion that just pulling/pointing a firear ends most confrontations but they need to read the works of Gary Keck or learn why the Klackamass Mall shooting (or Appalachian State) did NOT turn into a Newtown, Aurora cinema, etc. Of course because those (Klackamass, Appalachian) didn't have the body counts the media largely ignored them. As for predators you are spot on...and mountain lions are not decreasing in numbers. Just the opposite.
Scott Brady
Founder
Carrying an appropriate firearm with proper training is simply a method of preparation. No different then installing a winch and getting training in its use. If you travel solo in the backcountry with a winch, you are better prepared then someone who does not. Same for a gun. It is a tool that can solve problems should the scenario arise.
If you do not like guns, don't carry one.
I have a distinct self-defense advantage when I carry a pistol concealed. This is a fact that cannot be argued. The only thing that can be debated is if I "should" have the right to do so. Fortunately, our current laws permit this in the state of Arizona and those with reciprocal arrangements.
If you do not like guns, don't carry one.
I have a distinct self-defense advantage when I carry a pistol concealed. This is a fact that cannot be argued. The only thing that can be debated is if I "should" have the right to do so. Fortunately, our current laws permit this in the state of Arizona and those with reciprocal arrangements.
PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
I don't feel a *need* to carry a weapon while camping but I do choose to carry one all the time. I'm speaking of a handgun of course, a Springfield XD45 Compact to be specific. I grew up around guns. They were just a tool like any other. A fun tool to practice with, but just another tool. I applied for my concealed carry permit on my 21st birthday and have carried every day since it was issued 30 days later. In 24 years of daily carry my weapon has only saved my life once. The one and only time I've ever pointed a gun at anyone it was a guy about to smash my head in with a pair of bolt cutters. I'm damned glad I didn't have to pull the trigger, but even so I couldn't sleep or eat for more than 48 hours afterwards. Apparently staring Death in the face can have that effect.
Back to the real topic at hand. I have a house and property that borders an extremely brush-choked State Forest with a bunch of off road opportunities. I started out carrying a Walther PPK/S in .380ACP and always felt that with my training and marksmanship it was plenty for two legged predators. I carried it for 17 years and it's the gun I drew on the tweaker with the bolt cutters. After seeing a large cougar in our yard at the house in the forest a couple times I called the game warden. He came out to meet with us and give us some pointers. Take down the bird feeders, play a radio outside 24/7, cut the brush back further, etc. His biggest recommendation was to get a larger caliber carry gun. I asked him what he carried and if he got to choose it. He said their whole department is allowed to carry whatever they want and everyone carries .45s with +P self defense rounds intended for use on humans. The reasoning: Other than humans Cougars are the number one threat these guys face. Cougars are lean, muscular, thin skinned mammals that range from 75~350 pounds. In short, they are very much like humans in anatomy so whatever works good on humans works good on cougars. He personally had killed three cougars in the bush with his sidearm in the line of duty. Two were charging him, the third was charging another warden. Cougars do NOT mock charge. When startled (typically if they're sleeping or occupied stalking something) their instinct is straight up attack, not flee. If they hear you coming or know where you are you will likely never see them and they'll slink away silently. The warden said if you ever see a cougar kitten in the wild you're already dead! So I bought a .45 and some +P HSTs for carry on his recommendation. I got even more training as well, and started going shooting weekly instead of monthly. Doing short range trips to shoot 150-200 rounds rather than going out in the woods for a whole day of shooting all my guns.
I always have my .45 on my person, I carry it IWB with a reload the same way on my weak side. Nobody ever knows it's there unless I want them to know. I recommend that anyone that wants to be armed in the woods start with a handgun. A shotgun in your tent or truck is useless if the threat is between you and it, or the threat is a large animal and you can't really move or have to gather your kids. The great thing about a carried handgun is it's always there and you can use it with one hand up to and including at contact distance while you're being attacked. Anytime I'm going into the woods my Saiga .308 goes in the truck. I don't imagine I'll ever have a need for it but when you own a tool like that it seems silly to go someplace remote with large wild animals and sketchy humans and not bring it along. I built it with an Ace folding stock so it's very compact to store and is fully functional with the stock folded or extended. If I ever had to hike out of the woods the Saiga would be locked and loaded and slung on my back in case of bear problems. Guess I do have a valid reason to carry it in the truck.
The carry don't carry thing is completely up to the individual and I support both. I carry sometimes but typically only if I plan on target shooting or I'm hunting.
If the best recommendation was to get a big gun, the warden missed the mark a bit in my opinion. They are not the solution for everything. If you get attacked by a Mountain Lion you'll likely never see the cat until it's on you. Cutting the brush is a good idea, not having small domestic animals is another, don't leave garbage out etc. the bird feeder thing....meh not really their prey of choice, playing a radio 24/7 outside is just annoying. Mountain Lion attacks are extremely rare especially on adults. It's pretty rare to just surprise a Mountain Lion, they very likely know you are there and want nothing at all to do with you. Also if you see a kitten it does not equal instant death or I would be dead and so would several others.
For bears, bear spray is the way to go. The familiarity and confidence in firearms is somewhat innate but in bear encounters (also exceedingly rare) spray is the better tool.
http://www.outsideonline.com/1899301/shoot-or-spray-best-way-stop-charging-bear
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PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
It is also a tool that can cause problems should the scenario arise. There are a lot of suicides, accidental firearm related deaths and injuries in the US every year. For example my coworker recently had a stray bullet from a neighbor cleaning their gun enter their bedroom and hit their dresser at head level.
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