Grenadier buyer selling, short video
- Thread starter 86scotty
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Paddler Ed
Adventurer
Interesting the comment on it being classed as a commercial vehicle in the UK; that's been done so that emissions are less of a burden and means they don't need to worry about whole fleet emissions (think CAFE standard is the equivalent in the USA) . Has turned round and bit them as it's now classed as a commercial so speed limits are different, and so are toll roads.
They're doing the same with Australia as well to dodge the luxury car tax (anything over about AU$75k): https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2023-ineos-grenadier-exempt-from-luxury-car-tax
We'll see how that comes to bite them...
They're doing the same with Australia as well to dodge the luxury car tax (anything over about AU$75k): https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2023-ineos-grenadier-exempt-from-luxury-car-tax
We'll see how that comes to bite them...
zimm
Expedition Leader
I’m not the apologetic type, and I don’t get romantically attached to objects, so if I thought of there was a thing worth watching, I’d say so. …
.. to sum it up he didn’t his homework and bought the wrong damn car for his use. Car companies aren’t your goddamn mommy and don’t ask you what your use is to make sure you don’t buy something you don’t need. Holy crap.
.. to sum it up he didn’t his homework and bought the wrong damn car for his use. Car companies aren’t your goddamn mommy and don’t ask you what your use is to make sure you don’t buy something you don’t need. Holy crap.
utherjorge
Observer
There's actually no truth at all at what you've said here: none of your post applies to the video, unless you were responding to someone else.
zimm
Expedition Leader
Since you're calling me a liar, I decided to not only re-watch it, but googled the UK regs and looked for other complaints searching for a pattern that would support his claims, and yours.
From 1:00 to about 1:40 he blames INEOS. He admits he bought the truck and it seems he assumed that having back seats voided some or all of the UK's commercial spec regulations, (which have differing tiggers and restrictions than in the US). It seems that's not the case. He is insinuating it was INEOS's responsibility to tell him as much. Should you take the time to google it, there a ton of differing rules in the UK regarding commercial/passenger trucks they don't have here... but like here, its up to the buyer to know them... How is that INEOS's fault? Should they have had klaxons and a flashing warning sign that says... "If you are specing the cheaper commercial truck, and adding optional rear seats, you're not going to get away with ignoring commercial regulations, we're on to you!!!". In addition, I'm not seeing anyone else on any boards having made the same mistake. I am seeing people discussing the use and limits of the spec, and if its worth it though, so apparently this isn't some secret.
Anecdotally, I've also purchased many commercial trucks for our business, and not once has the dealer or manufacturer asked me my purpose or if I knew the laws regarding the GVWR of the trucks. They sort of assumed that if i'm inquiring about an f650, I know I want and what the driver requirements are for an f650. They're just interested in depositing my check.
He didn't know the law, he didn't take his time to look into it, he made an assumption so It's his fault, and only his fault.
I'll add: It looks to me like the regs put this as being able to travel posted limit on what we call a highway, and a ceiling of 60mph on regular non interstate primary or secondary roads... which oddly is within the MPH limitations on every road I've traveled in the US. I have no recollection of any primary or secondary roads that I've been on being 65mph (out west maybe?). My UK drive time can be measured in weeks, so it's not extensive, but, once again, there aren't a ton of roads that it would ceiling out on because of it's limitation. The other comments I saw on defender discussions followed the theme of... No one is looking for defenders registered as commercial (no passenger) and pulling them over. In other words, they cant tell the spec from the outside.
Since I now wasted my time on your accusation, here's where I will speculate. I originally assumed the trim quibbling was more about him ordering the wrong model, but it really does appear the speed limitation is much ado about nothing. I was just in the UK in an AMG and I barely found places outside of the motorway where I could go over 50. I'm now thinking the real reason is the only other subject that seemed to bug him. The cost. The unseen fit issues didn't suit his image for the $ outlay, and he was really happy he didn't sell at a loss. I now think this is someone with buyers remorse pinning everything but his emotions for spending too much.
Last edited:
utherjorge
Observer
So, I appreciate the lengthy reply. However, I still think you're wrong. You've even seen the same stuff in America: the stories are out there, where a vehicle is marketed for the track or for off-road then gets damage from completing said activity, and at first (or, in total) the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty. These stories are out there, though some companies have been forceful to come out to say, "no, track use will not void your warranty." GM did that for the Camaro and Corvette, for instance. To address your first paragraph, while there's no doubt that INEOS has repeatedly claimed (at least, not in North America?) that the rig is a work vehicle, it is unquestionably being marketed as a lifestyle rig. The many, many fawning reviews show this clearly. I absolutely suggest that INEOS should be making this clear, if they aren't, in the UK. This is tacit confirmation that it's supposed to be something...that it's not.
To your second point, you are also now seeing this in the US. I completely believe you that the dealers aren't asking you what you're doing with your commercial purchases. There's no doubt you aren't bringing an F650 to track day, but if you want to, go for it! Such capabilities trickle down. But you are seeing this, and seeing people make claims against dealers, regarding people selling F-150s for things that they cannot do, like an overloaded truck bed camper that wildly overloads the truck. In the one famous case I'm thinking of from this year, the purchaser specifically explained the role for his rig, and the dealer said "Sure!" and he folded his frame in half. I won't argue that dealers aren't garbage. Many/most are.
I am 100% certain that in the US, the way a vehicle is marketed is actionable, because it has been, time after time. To your stated conclusion after three paragraphs, I won't pretend to know how it gets handled in the UK. He could definitely get traction in the US.
Totally agree with the next paragraph. I generally agree with the last one, but it seemed like he was ready to buy the pickup? And I'm sure he was right that he could flip it and break even, or perhaps do better. People are doing that with Mavericks, so I'm sure it's true. I'd also like to know more about trim issues, but as the complete and total lack of service information here continues to blow me away I wouldn't touch one of these with a ten foot pole anyway.
To your second point, you are also now seeing this in the US. I completely believe you that the dealers aren't asking you what you're doing with your commercial purchases. There's no doubt you aren't bringing an F650 to track day, but if you want to, go for it! Such capabilities trickle down. But you are seeing this, and seeing people make claims against dealers, regarding people selling F-150s for things that they cannot do, like an overloaded truck bed camper that wildly overloads the truck. In the one famous case I'm thinking of from this year, the purchaser specifically explained the role for his rig, and the dealer said "Sure!" and he folded his frame in half. I won't argue that dealers aren't garbage. Many/most are.
I am 100% certain that in the US, the way a vehicle is marketed is actionable, because it has been, time after time. To your stated conclusion after three paragraphs, I won't pretend to know how it gets handled in the UK. He could definitely get traction in the US.
Totally agree with the next paragraph. I generally agree with the last one, but it seemed like he was ready to buy the pickup? And I'm sure he was right that he could flip it and break even, or perhaps do better. People are doing that with Mavericks, so I'm sure it's true. I'd also like to know more about trim issues, but as the complete and total lack of service information here continues to blow me away I wouldn't touch one of these with a ten foot pole anyway.
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