Hello Miss FJ62. Flaco's dream.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I stopped off at Javier's shop again today, the one with all the Toyotas, and had the FJ60 that I photographed. Anyways, I talked with the owner, mentioned the Rodney flush, party trick, and my transmission issue. He gave me his thoughts: Flush sounds ideal and I should do that; party trick raised a big eye brow, but when I told him at least 10 people on mud have reported to have no harm he sort of relaxed and then said, Yes some transmissions that is fine and potentially healthy; my transmission issue sounds like its low on ATF.

After that discussion, he mentioned one of his friends/customers having installed the 4 speed into the FJ62. He said it is a pretty good combo, with basically the same gear ratio as what the auto tranny currently has. Which means to me that it would run the same RPMS in 4th gear as it would in Drive on the auto?? He said "something like that." He also has all of the parts to do the swap and indirectly said he would be interested in helping so that he could possibly do future installs on the 62s as well. He did agree that if i could find the H55 5speed that would be ideal and better.

 

[OMC]

Rodney has written that the only auto tranny that has a problem with the "party trick" are the ones made by Rolls Royce. All others are capable of moving the gear shifter into park for a few seconds and then back into drive - above a speed of 50 miles and hour or faster. Fourth gear on the manual tranny is quite a bit shorter, meaning higher rpm for the same road speed, than the auto in overdrive.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Rodney has written that the only auto tranny that has a problem with the "party trick" are the ones made by Rolls Royce. All others are capable of moving the gear shifter into park for a few seconds and then back into drive - above a speed of 50 miles and hour or faster. Fourth gear on the manual tranny is quite a bit shorter, meaning higher rpm for the same road speed, than the auto in overdrive.

Any ideas on the numbers there?

 

[OMC]

No, I don't, and what I'm relaying is from posts I've read on the 3FE list from folks who have made the shift from auto to FJ60 4-speeds. Also, I seem to recall that the H55F in 5th gear still runs higher rpm at the same road speed than the A440F in overdrive with the torque converter in lock up mode.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Found this info on Mud...

I checked my FJ62 with stock gears, 31" tires, and an H42 transmission. I used a GPS to find speed and just assumed the factory tach was correct, it may not be but it's the one I have so I'm using it. I checked vehicle speed and engine rpm at several data points to find a calibration formula.

The speed calibration for this setup is: engine speed (rpm) / 46 = vehicle speed (mph)

So:
2000 rpm = 43 mph
2500 rpm = 54 mph
3000 rpm = 65 mph

My FJ62 with the auto trans had a speed calibration of rpm / 33 = mph
So:
2000 rpm = 61 mph
2500 rpm = 76 mph
3000 rpm = 91 mph

If I changed to the H55 trans my speed calibration should be: rpm / 37 = mph
So:
2000 rpm = 51 mph
2500 rpm = 64 mph
3000 rpm = 77 mph

Changing 31" tire to 33" tires give 6% higher speeds.

2000 rpm = 46 rpm
2500 rpm = 57 mph
3000 rpm = 69 mph

So let me get this straight.... for the most part, doing the H42 (4speed) swap into the cruiser will likely result in poorer fuel economy, but with the perception of better power?

 

[esh]

No, because there are some key data points missing (driving conditions, style). Economy is a moot point unless you actually do something real like put a 1HZ in, and even then I would only consider economy in terms of range for a tank, not mpg. MPG is for a VW tdi, oldish honda civic, corolla, etc, not a heavy brick on wheels. It is a waste of money and delusional to think otherwise for a Land Cruiser.

An H42 will give more usable power. If you live in mountains, 5th gear from the H55 does no good (except going downhill?). H42 gears are spaced closer so you have more usable gearing to retain engine rpm for maximum torques. Put another way, it is easier to drive to the best engine efficiency with an H42... then again maybe it isn't because the only data I see is rpm/speed.

If I were looking to swap a trans, I would do a later 60 series, H55, and 2FE. Easiest conversion bang for the buck. Otherwise go all in with a 6-cyl diesel or a vortec swap.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Jeeze what is with people yelling at me when I mention fuel economy and FJ62 in the same sentence???? :snorkel:

I look at it like this. Say the A440f gets 15mpg on the hwy in the best conditions, over 1000 miles at $3.00/gal for gas that is $200.
And say if the H42 transmission causes the Fj62 to get 10mpg in the same conditions, over 1000 miles at $3.00/gal for gas equals $300.

Real world example... Moab being roughly 975 miles, call it 1000 from my place. That is $400 or $600 for gas for the same trip.

But, if the cruiser were to get 12.5 mpg and have more usable power and able to actually climb over the rockies to get to Moab, then the ********** transmission is worth it!

See what I'm saying?:sombrero:

 

[esh]

I honestly haven't researched the results of an H42's or H55's mileage vs the A440 but I am surprised it could be as dramatic as a 33% loss in fuel efficiency, especially with the A440 robbing more power than the manual gearbox.

At least I can consider you are driving from Texas vs driving from, say, Wyoming (kind of an opposite style trip). Do you drive hammer down or at 55? The details matter the most if you are analyzing a situation. If you drive hard, you want your average or 95th percentile speed to coincide with the engine's peak torque.

If it were me, I would take my time on the trip knowing that driving 55mph is going to give the best fuel economy and be otherwise more relaxing. It is easy and comfortable to do in an FJ62 with 33s and an H42. The 3FE likes to rev, the 2F does not as much (though it can take it pretty well). I would also not have a roof rack on if I only cared about economy. But I approach trips differently I guess. I commit to a trip and do not worry about gas prices so much. If I am committed I know I will spend some unknown amount on fuel because I don't know what fuel costs everywhere. I am not designing my truck just to make the cost of fuel cheaper; the Land Cruiser is my vehicle because it does what it does so well (carrying capacity, slow speed control, uncanny reliability, ease of repair in the field, simple/effective design), not because it is efficient at going long distance.

I also know that I want to *enjoy* the trip and not have to race to a destination so I am not going to haul *** along an Interstate. You would be surprised at how much quieter the cabin is driving 55 vs 70 or 75.. there are a lot of things that can make a trip more relaxing. Ok maybe I'm showing my age, but finally I have been able to do trips lately where I am not exhausted when I return home; I am refreshed (and that is one of my goals for trips). Again, I drive to the engine, and with respect to that I often drive what the engine likes to drive at. I look at EGTs, I look at coolant temps, I have a certain visceral feedback/feel of how it is doing and I drive to the maximum efficiency of that situation when I am able to. Much of that has been becoming more patient, and I am learning. :ylsmoke:

When I did the HZ-t/H55 swap, my goal was ultimate range because I am more often than not doing very long distances (200-500 miles) solely on dirt/rock tracks (5-15mph) and I got tired of worrying about where I had to plan to break out for fuel. I also wanted to get over passes without drama. I have done this in mini/hilux's, the '64 FJ40, the BJ42s, the '79 FJ40 and now the FJ62. I knew the new HZ/H55 was not the ultimate but it was 95% there for me. With the turbo I know if I have to I can drive 75-80 over Interstate and still get 19mpg. But I can drive 55 and get 23 with a quieter cabin, softer music, easier conversation, a chance to see the countryside, etc.. If I could have afforded the $5000 in upgrades to get the A440 into shape that would have handled the HZ-t's torque, I would have done that because I think the A440/2 is one of if not the best Toyota transmission. It was just more advanced than the motor unfortunately. Keep in mind that my freak of a truck at 60-70mph cruising long distances would get 16-19mpg with the factory drivetrain on 31s. 33s, armor and gear load dropped it to 15-17. I didn't have the 29-30"ish tires on long but I am sure it would be in the 20s. It was a well maintained and tuned truck (I got it at 175k).

Not yelling, just trying to get closer to the whole story rather than focus on one aspect of an analysis. :elkgrin:

I'm going to shutup now.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

I'm going to shutup now.

No. No. That was a much better explanation! :victory:



I have bought most of the parts to do a tune up on the truck... unfortunately I am working 4 hours from home (in Houston from Dallas). Was hoping to get it and drive it back this weekend to start working on it (after doing tune up and transmission service of course).

I'm hoping that the A440 transmission will work well enough for me... I'm sort of tired of a manual transmission. My 4Runner and my wife's Sentra are 5spd. Put it in gear, apply pressure to skinny pedal and drive.


Ok, to further discuss your perspective. I agree, slowing down is good. Unfortunately, Texas hwys are 70mph. I'm not opposed to doing 60mph... I did that ALL the time with my Xterra. Top speed doesnt matter much to me... but I hate being hazardously slow. Atleast I'm a big chunk of steel rolling down the hwy.... holding up traffic.

Also. You mention that a goal of yours was to have more range while offroad. You're concept is the same as mine only from a different aspect.

It was just more advanced than the motor unfortunately. Keep in mind that my freak of a truck at 60-70mph cruising long distances would get 16-19mpg with the factory drivetrain on 31s. 33s, armor and gear load dropped it to 15-17. I didn't have the 29-30"ish tires on long but I am sure it would be in the 20s. It was a well maintained and tuned truck (I got it at 175k).

15-17 Would be awesome if my truck would do that. I'll stick with the underpoweredness until I could eventually do a SBC swap into the truck.

But I can drive 55 and get 23 with a quieter cabin, softer music, easier conversation, a chance to see the countryside, etc..

Some sort of sound deadening is going into this truck as well! Not that it is at all loud. I can converse with my wife without yelling.

and even then I would only consider economy in terms of range for a tank

Important for me too. We want to do trips to Mexico. I'm considering a long range tank.

I would also not have a roof rack on if I only cared about economy.

I need the extra room, unfortunately. Wife, daughter, three dogs and gear?:Wow1:

Thanks for your input, Sir.

 

[MoGas]

After logging fuel consumption for the past year in our FJ62, We get a solid 12 MPG on City/Highway combined, when using it as a DD. Highway driving only it gets 17 MPG.

We have 31s on it.





One other thing.

I just did this mod without the welding part, and the shifter is very firm now.


Dave

 

[esh]

Ok I'll keep going mostly because I have been through a lot of these decision points.

Highway speeds, yeah we are a lot fewer people and probably more conservative drivers in Oregon (not counting Portland), so it is easy to go slower. I think sticking with 31s and otherwise stock would be a good compromise. You have to really get used to the rev capability of the 3FE. 33s get you a more usable 3rd gear. I would wind the motor up and do up to 65 up passes in 3rd, for example, on 33s. 31s wouldn't make it as far.. just depends on whether you can stomach revving to 4200 rpm or give yourself a max of 4000. 4500 is red line.

After you get the trans sorted, do a cross-flow cooler (Summit has the big one) and a temp gauge. It is critical when you start adding weight.

Sound deadening is a pretty big win. I have been using RAAMMat (the older v1 stuff). It did as well or better than the leading brands and was much more reasonably priced. There is a sound deadener showdown web site out there somewhere. I am about 1/2 done with my install and it has been well worth it. I will probably end up using 2-1/2 rolls of RAAMMat when I am done. I also have a vinyl floor without matting underneath so it isn't an optimal setup for deadening (did it more for utility).

Weight.. I am at 6500lbs and in kind of the medium/heavy category. I have a friend nearby (and on this forum) that gets up to 8000ish in his 60. I do not recommend that kind of weight. Try to track yours as you do the build and plot it against your mileage.
I would expect a tuned FJ62 with healthy injectors, ignition, smog stuff, medium compression, to get 14-15mpg on 31s.

Depending on your spring condition, you might get away with add a leafs in the rear and 31s without a lift. I ran mine that way for a while and it works fine (lower to the ground, better gearing). Maybe all you need is a simple airbag setup for the rear weight? Do you plan to encounter significant stretches of road that require some 33" tire clearance? (31s go a surprising long way, especially with the A440's point and shoot control).

The larger fuel tank will require moving your spare to a rear bumper or inside. Both are doable. Inside, you can drill above the (passenger works better) rear quarter side panel, below the window and bolt a smallish U-bolt to the body panel then use a large machine eye-bolt (size it to take a lug-nut size nut, run the eye through the u-bolt), then run the thread through the tire and sandwich it to the truck side. 31s work great for this, 33s work ok (might need to chock with some wood to keep rubber marks off interior plastic).

For the rear tank watch Aus ebay for a 40 gallon main tank replacement. Sometimes people sell fabbed ones cheaply. We're talking USD200-300 vs 1200 for something like a new 120L Opposite Lock (an Aus product). Shipping to US will be resisted and costly.

For three people look for someone selling a split rear seat setup and just install one seat. You can find a lot of space by building a simple storage platform and using products like Kevin Rowland's WagonGear side and rear storage panels. It is very possible to contain everything inside. Depends on how you loaded, how efficient you pack and how long you are out. I pack too much crap and it is just me and the dog, but am making baby step progress.

Vortecs are going to be the cheapest "big change" swap you can do. I was seriously considering a 2002 5.3L w/ 700r4 or 4L60E. The motors were like $1200 from a yard that does clean pulls in Oklahoma (10 actual miles on the motors). Very close to 2002 was an ideal combination of features, but I forget all the details of my research because the 1HZ worked out instead. 5.7s are very desirable and 6.0s are harder and more expensive to find. A lot of hot rod swaps with 6.0s, but it is a gnarly engine. I was going for "just enough." My reasoning for a 5.3 was that it came in ~7000lb trucks (tahoes/subs?) and for those it was rated in the ~20mpg range. I could detune it electronically or with different components, it was common and the price was fair (gotta figure some coin for a wiring harness conversion, adapters, gauges, tcase, etc).

Cheers

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Ok I'll keep going mostly because I have been through a lot of these decision points.

You have to really get used to the rev capability of the 3FE. 33s get you a more usable 3rd gear. I would wind the motor up and do up to 65 up passes in 3rd, for example, on 33s. 31s wouldn't make it as far.. just depends on whether you can stomach revving to 4200 rpm or give yourself a max of 4000. 4500 is red line.

Thanks.
I havent driven the truck enough really to know its rev limits.

After you get the trans sorted, do a cross-flow cooler (Summit has the big one) and a temp gauge. It is critical when you start adding weight.

Looking that up now.

Sound deadening is a pretty big win. I have been using RAAMMat (the older v1 stuff). It did as well or better than the leading brands and was much more reasonably priced. There is a sound deadener showdown web site out there somewhere. I am about 1/2 done with my install and it has been well worth it. I will probably end up using 2-1/2 rolls of RAAMMat when I am done. I also have a vinyl floor without matting underneath so it isn't an optimal setup for deadening (did it more for utility).

Yeah, my 4runner really needs the sound deadening.... and some flooring. I like the idea of being able to lightly rinse out/wipe out the mud and grime. Get you some carpet, and send me the vinyl!:sombrero:

Weight.. I am at 6500lbs and in kind of the medium/heavy category. I have a friend nearby (and on this forum) that gets up to 8000ish in his 60. I do not recommend that kind of weight. Try to track yours as you do the build and plot it against your mileage.
I would expect a tuned FJ62 with healthy injectors, ignition, smog stuff, medium compression, to get 14-15mpg on 31s.

I try to go as light as possible. My 4runner is right at 4,000lbs with 265/75 R16s. I havent weighed it lately, but all I've added has been snorkel(10lbs?), roof rack (60lbs?), and the gear I carry all the time (-100lbs?). For the Fj62 (and the 4runner) I intend to do a shallow drawer system (6 inches or so). My plan is to have one drawer for kitchen, the other for recovery gear/tools/ etc. I will either build my own or buy the Wagon Gear side panels.

Depending on your spring condition, you might get away with add a leafs in the rear and 31s without a lift. I ran mine that way for a while and it works fine (lower to the ground, better gearing). Maybe all you need is a simple airbag setup for the rear weight? Do you plan to encounter significant stretches of road that require some 33" tire clearance? (31s go a surprising long way, especially with the A440's point and shoot control).

I have 31's on the truck now.... I dont like the look of it. I'm wondering if I can fit 33s and no lift (or with AAL)? :sombrero:

Just searched Mud--- yes it can fit.

33x12.50 (above)

33x10.50

33x12.50

And for reference...

33x10.50 with a 3" lift.

The larger fuel tank will require moving your spare to a rear bumper or inside. Both are doable.

I'm collecting the metal to build a rear bumper and swing out.

For the rear tank watch Aus ebay for a 40 gallon main tank replacement. Sometimes people sell fabbed ones cheaply.

I'll probably fabricate brackets for something like a jeep gas tank to fit in the spare tire bay.

Depends on how you loaded, how efficient you pack and how long you are out. I pack too much crap and it is just me and the dog, but am making baby step progress.

It helps for me to be cheap, often broke, and like the challenge of bringing less.

Vortecs are going to be the cheapest "big change" swap you can do. I was seriously considering a 2002 5.3L w/ 700r4 or 4L60E.

I'll probably work on collecting the parts for a vortech swap. The same set up you were considering. I'd like to know more about your diesel swap though.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

This truck has MAF add a leafs and 2.5" shackles. Looks like a good compromise.

I think its running 35s in this pic too! Looks great.

Here is another on stock suspension/wheels. 33s

And same truck but with a body lift+shackles+33 x12.50=

I wish I had one of those TJM bumpers too....:drool:

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Hmm, I like the looks of these 34" LTBs on stock suspension!

:sombrero:

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Talk some sense into me.

I'd really like to discuss (maybe a new thread) what size I want to get for the cruiser. I do not want to go to more than a 33" tire. 33" being the ideal size in my mind. I am still open to other sizes! Key needs. High puncture resistance, tread wear, traction, COMMON size- I want to be able to find a replacement most anywhere!

Your next question is going to be "what will you be doing with the truck."
I am building it to be able to take us wherever-ish. I've got a pretty strong desire to explore Mexico and Central America. Your typical mountain roads and desert track... Take a look at the following pics to see the types of terrain I've encountered in Mexico...

DEEP bull dust. Guy on the BMW turned around and said Efffff that on a loaded bike. THIS is why I am putting snorkels on my trucks!

Rough, but beautiful. Easy though

Steep and loose- Even for an enduro racer(me, I took the pic), this section of road was pretty tough.

Puncture resistance. We got 2 flats on this section. Cacti and thornes. I'll add to my pinstripes on this road. Beautiful though!

Another steep and rocky....


I should just break down and buy an AD...

Adventure Donkey.

Of course, the pics dont show the more difficult stuff... its usually an OS moment and I'm too worried about saving my hide to take a pic!

Of course, judging by those pics an All Terrain Tire would be adequate! The next pics may influence you differently. (found on net, but typical jungle stuff...)

This one being on a list of places--- River crossing on the road to Caracol Ruins in Belize.