utherjorge
Observer
100k for sure. But can any of you state how good a BMW motor would be for off road? I assume inline 6s are torquey...but are they?
INEOS Grenadier
- Thread starter Correus
- Start date
$38,000.00 to $56,000.00 U.S. dollars.
www.foxnews.com
Old-school Ineos Grenadier is British billionaire's brand new off-road SUV brand
Named after the pub where he thought of it.
www.foxnews.com
gungriffin
New member
C&D is a publication that actually draws people who like vehicles that are more than appliances to look good on an Instagram feed. That probably represents about 5% of the real Defender market though. The new Defender will likely sell well to people who want the halo of the brand image without actually needing to drive something that drives like a truck.
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gungriffin
New member
IF 55k is a number this can hit, I doubt that will include much. I bet the average sales price they will be seeking will be in the 70s. Hell, my friend just go a Ford Raptor. That has a ~55k MSRP, but his stickered at about 72k with options.
Given that the Grenadier is sourcing subsystems from major providers, don't be surprised to see the next partnership announcement to be Blackberry and the QNX virtual platform that is already used by BMW and Land Rover. Automotive support is moving to the remote/cloud IT management model with consolidated 'experience' centres.
Why Did Amazon Just Team Up With BlackBerry?
BlackBerry’s QNX gets a cloud-based upgrade, and Amazon gains a major foothold in the automotive market.
".......By linking QNX to the cloud, automakers can instantly monitor a vehicle's EV battery levels and vehicle subsystems, provide over-the-air software updates, and personalize vehicle cockpits, advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS), and machine learning models for autonomous driving through cloud-based apps.
The partnership should also strengthen QNX's security. BlackBerry already previously upgraded QNX's security with Jarvis, a tool that lets automakers spot bugs that could be exploited by hackers, but AWS will add an additional layer of protection.
BlackBerry Technology Solutions co-chief John Wall noted that merging those strengths into a single cloud-based offering would ensure that automakers "have the tools they need to deliver the driving experience consumers want, without sacrificing on the security and reliability they need."......."
Why Did Amazon Just Team Up With BlackBerry?
BlackBerry’s QNX gets a cloud-based upgrade, and Amazon gains a major foothold in the automotive market.
".......By linking QNX to the cloud, automakers can instantly monitor a vehicle's EV battery levels and vehicle subsystems, provide over-the-air software updates, and personalize vehicle cockpits, advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS), and machine learning models for autonomous driving through cloud-based apps.
The partnership should also strengthen QNX's security. BlackBerry already previously upgraded QNX's security with Jarvis, a tool that lets automakers spot bugs that could be exploited by hackers, but AWS will add an additional layer of protection.
BlackBerry Technology Solutions co-chief John Wall noted that merging those strengths into a single cloud-based offering would ensure that automakers "have the tools they need to deliver the driving experience consumers want, without sacrificing on the security and reliability they need."......."
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utherjorge
Observer
$38,000.00 to $56,000.00 U.S. dollars.
Old-school Ineos Grenadier is British billionaire's brand new off-road SUV brand
Named after the pub where he thought of it.
I saw that, and Car and Driver said $50s. I will buy one if that is the case. That's a superb price.
utherjorge
Observer
I'm not actually sure how relevant that is anymore, like for example Jeep's legendary 4.0 from 1987 through 2003 started life making 215lb torque and ended its run making 235lb torque. The most recent BMW inline 6 that was naturally aspirated made 236lb of torque at 2700 rpm on 3.0 liters. Engine tech hasn't been standing still
Meanwhile transmissions are a whole lot better than ever before.. you could drop a modern ~2.5L-ish naturally aspirated 4 cylinder and a modern ~8ish speed transmission in any 80's or earlier off roader and it would be an upgrade on and off the road.
I'm also worried about BMW engine longevity, but now that I've seen quoted the exact motor they plan to use, I can check for myself...still, I'd be happier with a Chevy/Ford/Toyota due to parts in my neck of the woods. I would plan on being a long-term owner for sure.
T-Willy
Well-known member
I agree, 40s USD for a moderately spec'd Grenadier would be a superb price. They're doing this right. I want to learn more about the engine and how they'll address dealer service stateside, but, presuming those boxes check, Grenadier may well replace or supplement my 80 series after three decades of service.
Paddler Ed
Adventurer
What globally available car is around the US$40k mark? That can be useful to see how it'll compare globally.
I had a look at the UK prices and it was going to start at nearly 2x a basic Hilux double cab (a Defender 90 commercial is estimated to be 1.5x a Hilux), which fits with their Australian price expectation of AU$80k-ish.
T-Willy
Well-known member
I think the most analogous comparison would be a Land Cruiser 76 workmate, which in Australia retails for around the equivalent of $48K USD.
Here are a few articles that I found on the B58 engines. As @Shovel observed with past BMW motors, the B58 isn't immune to problems with gaskets, which gives me pause. It's also said to be relatively complex with key bits like the thermostat, timing chain and cam gears located at the back of the engine, which may not be easily accessible. I haven't done a deep dive, but these articles are a few initial interesting reads:
- A fairly detailed description of the motor: B58: http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/detailed-analysis-the-bmw-b58-inline-6-cylinder-engine/
- Common problems: https://bmwtuning.co/the-4-most-common-bmw-b58-engine-problems/#:~:text=The 4 Most Common B58 Engine Problems&text=However, there are still a,failures, like with the N54.
- Another article https://bmwtuning.co/n54-n55-b58-s55/
Reliability...
"Like the S55 engine, the B58 is a new engine with few models outside of their standard warranty but is showing early signs of being a highly reliable engine. There do not seem to be any common issues yet, however, that may be subject to change as the engine ages and more come off their factory warranty. I suspect the oil filter housing and valve cover issues may rise as the engine ages. Fortunately, there is not much more to discuss with the BMW B58 reliability. Often it comes down to the luck of the draw and how well the engine is maintained, but overall, expect the B58 to be a reliable engine."
"There is a downside though. Papadakis says that the B58 is very complex. It also has an internal manifold made from plastic with an intercooler built into it, which might not be able to handle high-boost scenarios. This is one component that Papadakis will have to upgrade. The thermostat, the engine timing chain and the cam gears are also located in the back of the engine, which will make maintenance rather difficult, but it all depends on how well the chain holds up once the mill cranks out more oomph."
Who on the forum knows about the B58?
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Paddler Ed
Adventurer
It wasn't so much a direct vehicle comparison, more the price point of something fairly standard, a bit like the Big Mac Index*- for example, a VW Golf in the UK isn't that different in price to the Hilux. Given that the expected UK price point is £40,000, that puts it comparable to a Volvo XC60 (base model Momentum @ £41k) which when translated to Aussie spec is AU$69k - which puts it in AU$7k of a base spec 70 series single cab and $2k of a wagon. Put a Volvo XC60 in the USA market, and it's coming out at US$40k (albeit with a different engine to the UK and Aussie ones - they were diesels).
So potentially, it could be hitting the USA at that $40k mark (unlikely as the $=£ isn't at parity), or nearer that $50k mark (more likely)
*Big Mac Index: A way of removing currency fluctuations to show how much things cost; I've also used multiples of the minimum wage before to do the same, which is often more useful than a direct exchange rate. https://www.economist.com/news/2020/01/15/the-big-mac-index
I like the design..still seems a bit rough on the edges like the back windows not in line with the first two rows of windows. But definitely a more focused design.
I really wish they create isolated/ modular electrics design with manual overrides so that off something fails it doesn't crap out the full vehicle. That's my gripe with modern off-roaders. Fully integrated design that's laden with cross dependencies.. One item failure puts the computer inn panic mode
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I really wish they create isolated/ modular electrics design with manual overrides so that off something fails it doesn't crap out the full vehicle. That's my gripe with modern off-roaders. Fully integrated design that's laden with cross dependencies.. One item failure puts the computer inn panic mode
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anyone know if the chicken tax would apply to a vehicle like this?
Paddler Ed
Adventurer
Interesting noises being made about the production location:
www.autocar.co.uk
As the comments allude to, Ratcliffe is pro-Brexit.... but might just have realised that it's not a good deal for manufacturing things in the UK...
See for example this piece from Reuters who state his pro-Brexit stance and his plans for manufacturing in the UK (in September last year)
www.reuters.com
Confirmed: Ineos in talks with Daimler to build Grenadier at Smart factory | Autocar
Ineos could shun Wales and Portugal and use plant in Hambach, France, to become the manufacturing base for the new Grenadier
As the comments allude to, Ratcliffe is pro-Brexit.... but might just have realised that it's not a good deal for manufacturing things in the UK...
See for example this piece from Reuters who state his pro-Brexit stance and his plans for manufacturing in the UK (in September last year)
Billionaire Brexiteer Ratcliffe's Ineos to build new 4x4 vehicle in Britain
Ineos, the petrochemicals firm run by pro-Brexit billionaire Jim Ratcliffe, Britain's third-richest person, will build a new 4x4 vehicle in the UK, a boost to an industry hit by closure announcements this year.
www.reuters.com