Reliability v ease of repairs?

[craig333]

I used to value repairability over reliability. I can and have fixed just about everything on my Jeep. Its very easy to work on. I know just what wrench I need for whatever goes wrong. Things do go wrong on an old vehicle though. My truck has a water pump, fuel pump and alternator replaced in 15 years. I can't fix a lot of stuff on it but its a lot less likely to break. I think you need to look at just how much it is on the spectrum. Lets say we use a scale of 1 to 10, one being very repairable and 10 being very reliable. I'll take the ten. If it more of a five though I'd rather lean towards repairable.

 

[toylandcruiser]

yeah for how long. you can't be saying in 40 years these vehicle will be on the road and reliable. sure for the first 10-15 years of it's life but after that I think you are on borrowed time. highdesertranger

With all do respect. Are you a time traveler? You have no idea. That is 100% speculation.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[Dake21]

yeah for how long. you can't be saying in 40 years these vehicle will be on the road and reliable. sure for the first 10-15 years of it's life but after that I think you are on borrowed time. highdesertranger

The vehicle might be rusted to death before 40 years. and besides, 40 years is more than very good for a vehicle life span.

 

[98WhiteT4R]

Sometimes I think proven reliability can be a false sense of comfort... for example most think or assume that Toyota's are bulletproof (which for the most part they are and I own one) and some will stretch service intervals and never look under the hood. On the other hand some know they are reliable but still keep up on maintnaince and keep tabs on everything. I know what my mechanical limits are and what would be out of my league(although when your stranded you can sometimes surprise yourself). So when I started looking for a new 4x4 I knew it had top be reliable and fairly easy to work on. I LOVE Rovers and originally wanted a Disco but was scared about the unreliability (dont kill me Rover guys) and knew that I didn't have the skills necessary or money to COMFORTABLY own one. I ended up with a 3rd Gen 4Runner which seemed like a good fit for me and my mechanical skills. Of course along the way there were things I could fix but thats life. I know Im rambling but to answer the question I agree that a bit of reliability AND repairability is the way to go if possible.

 

[IdaSHO]

You cannot be as general as MFG.

Saying a Toyota is reliable because it is a Toyota is a bit naive.


You need to be MUCH more specific.

I look at it from the engine to the ground.

Engine
trans + transfercase
axles
hubs

etc


From there I can make a very solid argument with regard to reliability if said combination has a proven track record.
Id also toss in ease of maintenance and repairability for each of those items.

For a 4x4/expo/whatever rig, I suggest shooting for overbuilt.


A vehicle that is overbuilt for its chosen task will almost always be more reliable than otherwise

 

[red EOD veteran]

reliability with the common repair parts easy to work on is ideal for me. With the deuce and a half I get a good mix of both. It's usually very reliable, access to repairs is as easy as it can be.

 

[redthies]

The nice thing is that I have a 15 year old Land Cruiser (reliable AND field serviceable) to drive when my modern electronic wonder craps the bed!

 

[rayra]

I tend to think like you...but I've owned my truck for 25 years and have done all my own maintenance and did the Cummins re-power as well so me and my rig are on very intimate terms so if and when something starts to go out i notice and i know where it is and how to get to it.I carry a medium size tool box behind the back seat and it holds everything short of a torque wrench and a piston ring compressor to do a overhaul!being a 1968 F-250 and having a totally mechanical Cummins 4bt doesn't hurt but KNOWING your rig makes all the difference when you need to wrench on it in less than favorable conditions......just my two cents.

All very true. Had that '85 since '86. 29yrs now, 360k+ mi. It's both good and bad that when it craps out I pretty much know what it is before I pop the hood, be it by feel sound or smell. Had the ECM crap out in the middle 90s, caused me no end of trouble, would just shut down randomly. Before th final diagnosis / fix, I was carrying all the ignition parts as spares. Got real good and tearing into that HEI setup on the side of the road. It really got to be like some worn airplane, needing an hour of maintenance for an hour of flight time. Just as I was really sick of it I sort of 'semi-retired' and now I don't drive it 4k mi / yr. So it hangs around for chores / hauling stuff. And laughably, when I recently bought my '02 K1500 Suburban with 118k mi as my project vehicle and daily driver, I was effectively reducing the age of my vehicle by over 1/2 and its mileage by 2/3 and improving my fuel economy by about 30%. So this sort of topic is mildly amusing to me. My definitions of 'acceptable used vehicle' is WAY outside the norm.

to the OP etc. The 'real' secret is learn how to troubleshoot and be a moderately capable mechanic. It isn't hard. And once you are, nothing else is hard. Especially if you intend to take a vehicle on the back side of beyond.

 

[Silvanus]

For me, both through modification. I owned an '90 YJ with the 258, one of the first mods I did was change out the AMC distributor for a Ford 300 ( 77-78 model years ) cap & rotor, then installed a Weber carb. Had that YJ for 16yrs and 225,527 on the ticker until I bought the '06 Unlimited. The 258 was never rebuilt and I gained mpg as well!

 

[PHeller]

Ease of repair, and value of vehicle repairing. Reliability really depends on how cheap/easy parts are to replace.

I just sold my Trooper after only a month of ownership not because it isn't a great vehicle, but because when compared to the the Tacoma I was being offered with similar miles for purchase price of $750 more, the Tacoma was a better platform to invest in. Putting $1000 into the Tacoma, I know in a few years I'll be able to get that back out of it. Put $1000 in the Trooper and in a few years it'll still be worth squat.

That's maybe the one advantage to used Toyotas, Jeeps, and Land Rovers is that at least the money you put into them you'll get back out (unless you buy new), or at least more than other platforms.

Not just this, but I hate working on V6/V8 motors unless they are old or of proven reliability (GM LSX). The issue with V6 motors is that most of them were made to fit the space of a 4 cylinder, and are subsequently jammed under the firewall. I've decided I want nothing to do with a motor under the firewall. This includes vans.

 

[Happy Joe]

Personally I go for reliability and change the systems that I do not like to assure both reliability and serviceability.
When I get a new (old) vehicle; I go over the powertrain and electrical system, then typically modernize/customize and or strengthen large parts of it... along the way I do research to find unusual but likely "irreplaceable" replacement parts (i.e. a Jeep crank sensor).
I also carry a selection of tools (sufficient to remove and replace all of the fasteners on the vehicle (If they don't fit in a moderate sized ammo can you likely have a vehicle that is too complex or you are nitpicking the tool levels required) and a selection of most likely spare parts along with a vehicle schematic and DVM.
Alternators are no biggie; carry a rebuild kit (if you can't easily remove it you will be smarter after it is fixed).
Broken suspension parts are sometimes a bit more trouble but the welder (dual batteries, heavy jumper cables, a stinger, goggles and rod) solves many issues (that cannot be solved by changing out a U-joint etc.).

I also carry a peanut butter jar full of miscellaneous bench junk (nuts bolts, old spark plug, electrical splices tire valves, hose clamps, etc. it has saved many trips bot for myself and others...

I say, try to stay simple & reliable with vehicles that are within your ability to troubleshoot and fix far from a parts store; keep up or ahead of the scheduled maintenance (replace that belt tensioner when you replace that belt), use a good grade of synthetic lube and carry tools & spares as a backup.

Enjoy!

 

[L_Kilkenny]

Personally I don't see why we can't have or cake and eat it too. I'm not a new truck/car guy. As a matter of fact I'm cheaper than dirt and prefer to let someone else eat most of the depreciation. What it all means is I own older vehicles from the 1980's, 90's and early 2000's. To be honest I have a soft spot for carburetor's. I'll put more trust in a simple mechanical fuel system and pump then in a collection of aged electronics. Don't get me wrong EFI has many advantages. Better emissions, automatic control of air/fuel, etc. But am I to trust 20 year old electronic components more than a mechanical fuel pump, carb and distributor fired ignition? Carbs traversed the globe, rather reliably I might add, for almost a century before EFI became common place. That covers the reliability aspect.

Now for the ease of maintenance........ Carbs and distributor fired ignition are not a mysterious devil. Diagnostics is simple. You have enough fuel but not too much (dictated couple pieces of brass with fixed holes in them), you have spark at the right time, you go down the road. No computers needed. No pumps in fuel tanks. One fuse for the engine. I can replace every external component needed to have a engine run in an hour or two. Can't get much easier to maintain then that.

EFI has it's place no doubt and it still amazes me that our cell phones and laptops will fall apart if you look at them funny but today's automotive electronics suffer constant abuse and keep on ticking. Reliability on about any vehicle 10 years and younger is well above an old carbureted beast. But at some point the tide does turn unless you go thru and replace just about every electronic related component with quality parts, usually OEM not China made cheap auto store "equals".

All of that and I've yet to swap EFI for a carb in any 90's vehicle. Been tempted but just can't pull the trigger, those instant cold starts are addictive. But I've yet to ditch a carb for EFI either. We all have options and prefer different things. YMMV.

 

[Happy Joe]

I dropped a modified cross bread/hermaphrodite Ford 300 fuel injection & 4.0 Renix manifold onto a YJ 258 back in the late 80's/early 90s.. one of the best things I ever did (still miss that engine), for both reliability & on/off road performance; never looked back and would not consider a carbureted vehicle today for any thing but the body/frame or parts. (I no longer mess around in the third world, if I did I might install or carry a carburetor and distributor temporarily... it would take some deep consideration).

Since then I converted every carbed vehicle that I got to multipoint EFI as nearly the first modification, without regret, and converted engines for others.
All my non DIS vehicles get multi-spark electronic ignition (a very good mod, IMO, if you are trying to live with a carburetor).

Almost the only issues that I have ever experienced with multiport EFI were fuel pump issues (had fuel pumps fail on carbureted engines too, and much more frequently) along with a coil that died (not EFI related).
I especially like not having to squirt hazardous (read that MSDS sheet) chemicals on the carb to clean/rebuild it and not having to mess with points, or retune the vehicle for altitude changes and spring/fall.

Enjoy!

 

[busbart]

And what about the availability of these electronic pieces in about a year or ten? Go figure out:snorkel:

 

[Happy Joe]

And what about the availability of these electronic pieces in about a year or ten? Go figure out:snorkel:

The engine and most of the electronics in my old (1985) jeep are from 1997; I had an XJ (Jeep Cherokee) from 1991 with virtually the same engine last year and there was no problem getting any sensor or electronic part; that's here in the US though.

Questionable parts availability (above and beyond the essential spares that I carry) is one reason that I would have to spend more than a bit of thought (and possibly carry some stone age spares) if I were going to travel the third (or even second) world with this vehicle.
Although many modern engines no longer have provision for a distributor, my current engine (Jeep 4.0 liter) would run without the electronic controls if I install an older distributor, a carburetor with adaptor, an ignition resistor and drop the high pressure fuel pump out of the line (I have 2 fuel pumps a low pressure supply pump at the tank and a high pressure injection pump near the engine, I found that this eliminates any tendency, for this particular engine, to vapor lock in the desert heat).

For a long time I, too, was leery about electronically controlled engines, and this was justified with electronic carburetors, but electronically controlled multipoint fuel injected engines have shown themselves to be (in my opinion) probably the best thing to happen to vehicles since electric starters and electronic ignition...

While I am a fan of fuel injection everyone should run what they are comfortable with.

Enjoy!