The Gubblemobile- Series III from hell.

[Mercedesrover]

Your axles will be in the mail on Monday, Mike. Should I disguise them as something else? Paper weights? Ice breakers? Really strong ski poles? Anything but Land Rover parts, right?

jim

 

[Alaska Mike]

Whatever you do, don't mark them as scrapbooking tools. I'll never get them back.

Looking forward to getting them. Once they're on hand I'll start putting the axle back togther and start looking at the front. It will be nice to complete a portion of the build and be able to say "that's done", check it off the list, and move on.

 

[Scott Brady]

"You see no Land Rover parts. There is no greasy hulk in the garage. Gear oil smells good..."

You could always try the "spend quality time with your new bride" option, or the "movie and a dinner date" distraction. She is uber cool, so it will work out...

 

[Andrew Walcker]

If your wife is as smart as mine don't try the line of, "Honey, I'm in this huge mail part swapping club for LR enthusiast, it's part of the circle of life thing and....."

I totaly agree with Scott that this :26_34_3: along with dinner and a movie timed just before the mailman shows up to be the best course of action! :26_7_2:

 

[Alaska Mike]

Yeah, I shot myself in the foot already, since I take her out to eat often. Any distraction of that nature would be costly. Then again, it would solve the problem, since I wouldn't have any Rover money to spend.

I do have an uber-cool wife, so I'll do my best not to anger her. For now that means not working on the Rover too much during ski racing season (not a problem- it's cold) and trying to help with the kids and the house in my own incompetent manner.

I still think the Jedi trick has its merits.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Yesterday I was in a friend's shop, and he had a Jeep YJ up on the rack. I did some quick measurements and it looks like the MPFI I-4 might fit the engine compartment. A couple quick calls around uncovered a running '92 2.5L with all of the harness (down to the tail lights) for $300-$400. The earlier, pre-OBDII engines are pretty darn reliable with fewer sensors than the later engines. The engine package is roughly 2' wide by 3' long, similar to the Iron Duke 2.5L.

I think (if it will fit) this would have some of the benefits of both of my previous engine choices (the Iron Duke and the 4.3L). I could pull highway speeds in mountain passes with relative ease, run offroad at angles without flooding, and have a manufacturer-supported engine (there is a ton of support for Jeep engines). I would have to fabricate engine mounts, but that is a minor issue in the scheme of things.

Novak makes a complete kit to adapt the 2.5L to the SM465, which includes the bellhousing, crank position sensor bracket, pressure plate, clutch disc, slave cylinder, pushrod, pivot, and throw-out bearing. It would make for a very clean install.

I really need to get in there and do some more measuring to see if it's possible.

 

[4Rescue]

This truck's gonna be neat when it get's finnished... I'm glad to see someone else has issues making up his mind about engines as much as I did

 

[kd_walmsley]

Mike,

I owned a 2.5l MPFI in a jeep YJ with 33" tires and 4.10 gearing for a few years. Considering it is a computer controlled engine, I found it very reliable and parts were extremely cheap, just a junk yard away in most cases. The stats say you are looking at 121 hp (90 kW) @5250 and 139 ft•lbf (188 N•m) @3250. I was able to hold approx. 45mph over the Rockies on I70 with a very heavy equipment load. On generally flat terrain I had no problems with 3000 rpm for approx 10 hours a day including pit stops. On 33's with the YJ 2.5l, 4.88 gearing is near ideal for me so landy 4.7's should work fine.

If you going through all the very admirable effort of new motor mounts, transmission adapters, computers, etc.... why not go for a much better performing motor?

 

[njtaco]

Mike,

I hope I'm not interrupting, or adding to confusion (indecision) but can you not use a carbureted 4.3 with a simple distributor? No need for OBD2, or any computer for that matter, and more power than the Duke? Or do you need a specific production engine for inspection or something? Just wondering...and learning, too.

 

[Mercedesrover]

I've always wondered why the 4.3 isn't used more in Series trucks. Nice and short, pretty light, strong and reliable and an almost unlimited choice of transmissions. It's a small-block Chevy, only smaller. What's better than that?

 

[Alaska Mike]

Excellent questions, and hopefully my thought processes make sense.

The carb'd 4.3L was/is certainly on the table, as was/is the TBI version. The real problem for me is finding a donor with relatively low (sub 150K) miles in the state. I really don't want to dump thousands into the engine before I even get it rolling. It would also need to come from a vehicle with a manual transmission, or I would be searching for all sorts of small and large parts to make it work. Been there, done that.

The GM 2.5L is an older engine, but I found one that has less than 150K out of a CJ with a verifiable history. Likewise, I can find OBDII 4.3Ls with manageable mileage that haven't been abused.

The Jeep 2.5L is kinda a late entry in the race. I'm familiar enough with them to be intrigued. They combine what I like about both engines, and the cost of adapters will be almost offset by the lower cost of getting the engine and wiring harness.

As always, nothing is written in stone and I would probably be happy with any of the choices in the long run, for different reasons.

 

[Alaska Mike]

As I said in an earlier post, a 4 banger just "feels" right in a Series rig. However, I also looked at odd-fire Buicks and all sorts of V6s, because there's a certain charm there as well. A V8 isn't on the table for me, simply because I'm not a V8 kind of guy and while the transmission and transfercase will certainly be able to handle the extra grunt, the axles will probably faint and the brake pads will melt at the first sign of any skinny pedal.

Novak sells a book on swapping in TBI and MPFI Chevy motors, and that might be my first step in deciding.

 

[Mercedesrover]

A V8 isn't on the table for me......the axles will probably faint.....

You won't have any trouble with those axles. The diffs perhaps, but not the axles!

jim

 

[TeriAnn]

I do have an uber-cool wife, so I'll do my best not to anger her. For now that means not working on the Rover too much during ski racing season (not a problem- it's cold) and trying to help with the kids and the house in my own incompetent manner.

I still think the Jedi trick has its merits.

Sounds like your plan has lot of merit. Try being attentive and supportive of her projects. Satisfaction leaves less room for project jealousies. Mutual support is a good trick.

trickery & slight of hand cost trust points. Real hard to replace if lost and real important to have.

 

[TeriAnn]

As I said in an earlier post, a 4 banger just "feels" right in a Series rig. However, I also looked at odd-fire Buicks and all sorts of V6s, because there's a certain charm there as well. A V8 isn't on the table for me, simply because I'm not a V8 kind of guy and while the transmission and transfercase will certainly be able to handle the extra grunt, the axles will probably faint and the brake pads will melt at the first sign of any skinny pedal.

Sometimes the extra grunt is easier on the drive train because power can be applied smoothly at a constant rate along a lot of trails.

As a data point, my 302 with cast iron heads weighs less than 50 pounds more than a stock 2.25L petrol. The 302 with a carb got identical fuel mileage to what I got with the 2.25L and the 302 has more torque at idle than the 2.25L had at peak. Torque application is much smoother with the larger engine.



You are talking about computer controlled engines but I bet you haven't progressed to the point of where to put a computer. So I'll jump ahead in the topic with a suggestion:

Bulkhead instrument shelf right side is about as protected place as you are going to find. There is a hole in the bulkhead covered by a plate. The hole is for right hand steering. It is in a perfect place for the EFI harness to go through the bulkhead. I just removed the cover plate, filed the hole a little larger and used the bulkhead grommet from the donor harness. I mounted the EEC power relay inside right next to the EEC.

With the cover plate in front of the computer.

​

I replaced my centre seat with a cubby box. On the behind the seat bulkhead I mounted a flat plate that mounts a fire extinguisher. I ended up putting the impact switch next to the fire extinguisher where I can easily reach it encase it accidentally tripped as I was going over an obstical. The fuel pump relay is on the back side of the panel in the space between the panel & bulkhead.

High pressure EFI pump can be a problem. They push well but they do not suck well. An external pump would require a high volume low pressure pump (good at sucking from a fuel tank) to feed it and if you plan on operating the vehicle at high angles you will need a fuel accumulator between the two pumps that the high pressure pump can draw from while the tank's pickup tube is out of the fuel. Your best solution is a custom tank that has mounts for an internal fuel pump plus good baffling to keep the fuel by the pickup at steep angles. A stock tank would still need a fuel return inlet to be added.

I've noticed that OBDII vehicles tend to be hydrophobic. That's generally because a hot crank angle sensor may break when suddenly immersed in near freezing water. The sensor needs to be at crank level low on the engine and the engine will never fire up without the sensor input. If you decide on ODBII I suggest carrying a bag full of spare crank angle sensors.