What vehicles make the best Expedition platforms?
- Thread starter Sunpilot
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doubleroses
Adventurer
Damn, no love for Adam! Lol
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Box Rocket
Well-known member
It's all good. Everyone is different with different needs. The right fit for me may not be the right fit for someone else. Fortunately we all have a variety of solid options to choose from.Well "too big" for you may be just right for someone else....I'm probably setting myself up for a "that's what she said joke" but oh well.
You see full-sizes going a lot of places that previously only Jeeps and older LC's went...not saying that a F-150 or Chevy Silverado is the best platform for building a Moab rig, but for overland type travel, which I think was the original discussion, those sized-rigs seem to be doing all right, as evidenced by the numerous build threads and owners on this forum.
I've always agreed that Toyota is one of the leading brands, if not the best, when it comes to reliability. But as of late, domestic brands have been catching up in a big way. That's probably why the F-150 was recently the most popular (sales-wise) full-sized pickup in America, while Tundra sales haven't been doing nearly as well. Again, not saying the Tundra sucks relative to the F-150, because it doesn't. But it's readily apparent that most American truck/SUV buyers have faith in the Domestic manufacturers.
As for the LC80 vs a brand new pickup/SUV of any brand, I think you're letting your Toyota-goggles get the better of you. The LC80 had documented issues, and at this point as a 20+ year old SUV, there is no way it can be judged to be a more reliable rig than a modern truck; if we're being honest, they're not even in the same league simply due to the age difference. I'll grant you it does have a dedicated following in the offroad community, but that has more to do with its 2 solid axles and locking diffs, which is a combo that is hard to find nowadays unless you're getting into 3/4 ton pickups or Jeeps. Again not saying that the LC 80 is a bad vehicle, because it isn't, but comparing its reliability to a modern SUV/truck is apple to oranges scenario and not worth pursuing.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
Agreed. Pretty much what I've said in other posts. A full size can be perfect for some. I was impressed with the AEV Ram that OJ reviewed recently and saw it up close in Moab last week. It's HUGE! But I can't say I wouldn't love having it.
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I don't deny I'm a fan of Toyotas and could very well be guilty of a slightly biased opinion. But that opinion is based on more than 20 years and 7 different vehicles of Toyota 4WD ownership. I've also had a Jeep Cherokee, a Land Rover Discovery and currently also own a full size domestic (GMC Yukon XL). Maybe I'm unique in my experience and excellent luck with Toyotas, but I think the worldwide reputation of Toyota shows I may not be all that unique even if I am a bit biased.
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It may not be 'modern' but I'll happily and contently enjoy my 80 series LC. I'll still stop and help you on the trails if you've broken down.
(meant in the most friendly and joking way possible) If the 80s get overlooked by others in favor of something newer that's great because I'm shopping for another one for my son. I'm not saying the 80 is the best vehicle on the planet. It just fits my individual needs the best out of everything I've tried and has been very reliable for me with great performance. That may not be the same for anyone else which is completely fine. I don't begrudge anyone or look down on someone just because they don't own a Toyota. It's about getting out and exploring and venturing further than you did last time, whatever vehicle it is in.
doubleroses
Adventurer
Personally, I have both the 80 series and two 100 series land cruisers. There are three of us and two dogs that travel. For just me, I love my 80 but for the family my 100 is my go to every time. It's unbelievably comfortable and amazingly capable off road. My wife's 100 series has over 260,000 miles on it and it's taken us all over Ouray, Moab, and out to California from Colorado with no problems.
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4x4junkie
Explorer
I'm guessing your first paragraph is directed at me? To address that, I have a wife and 4 kids who are regularly with me on trips. We simply did not fit in my Tacoma. If I made solo trips, I would definitely still own that truck. I bought the truck when my wife had our twins. So there were a few years where she and our twins did not go on trips with me so it worked well for me and my two older boys. Now that we all travel better the Tacoma wasn't going to work. Simple as that. It wasn't sold because of any deficiency that I felt it had.
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I also find it interest when people criticize a vehicle they have never owned.
It wasn't directed at you specifically, but did include you among others, yes.
Very well, your needs changed so to sell it would certainly make sense (which I did make that point in my post).
As for me owning a Toyota personally, there's no need to own one to know something about them. I've been plenty intimate with ones among family & close friends (doing work on them) to know details of their history and how they compare to mine & other vehicles I've had ongoing access to (I'm sortof the mechanic in the family lol). Many have been great from the beginning just like my Ranger has been. A couple have been downright nightmares (hello 3VZ-E anyone??). However none have been the stellar completely trouble-free standouts like you and some others have suggested... Excepting for the 3VZ-E issue, most of it has been relatively minor (power steering leaks being the most common thing to turn up among them, but a leaking wheel cylinder, a starter that went out, and some electrical component & wiring issues too).
I would not be averse to owning a new Toyota if they were to come out with something that interests me (a pickup the size of the 1st-gen Tacoma for example... yeah I know not gonna happen anytime soon)... I certainly don't hate the brand, their vehicles are indeed quite good overall. Something I'm not about to do though is pay the inflated price people seem to want for old used ones when I can get a just-as-good or better (IME) vehicle of another make often for half or even 1/3 the cost (or buy a brand new one if possible for only a little bit more). A used car is a used car regardless of brand, it will always carry a risk that is almost wholly determined by the care it's previous owner gave it.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
I find it interesting when people brag how wonderful their Toyota has been (especially one they don't own anymore) when it is put as if nothing else can compare to it, because I could brag just the same about how great my 1994 Ford Ranger has been too (and I still own it... Why would I sell what continues to be a good reliable truck? (Ok, maybe if needs change I s'pose is a reason to sell) But as they say, age (mileage) is just a number
It has the Cologne OHV 4.0L V6 and M5OD 5-speed trans. Both this engine and the trans are easily 300K+ mile units when maintained. The truck is lifted and has 33" tires on it, yet still can hit low-20s MPG hwy. The only trouble it has given me I brought onto myself through abuse during my younger years (launching 4 feet airborne and shock loading the drivetrain I don't think is conducive to the longevity of any vehicle lol
Aftermarket for these trucks is also very strong. Suspension kits, axle gears & differential lockers abound. Aftermarket may be a little bit weaker for body bolt-ons like bumpers & armor, but it is there if you look for it. Payload is much greater than any similar Toyota (1650lbs with the #2 option)... and there is nothing you can do to the suspension and/or axle that legally increases GVWR/GAWR.
I think what happens when people participate in reliability surveys, many often conveniently "forget" about certain problems they may have had with their Toyota (or simply write them off as anomalies) due to a double-standard that exists. It's the only thing I can come up with because I've seen no evidence of this supposed superior reliability among the many Toyota vehicles owned by friends & family (I can break it down if anyone is interested, though the post would probably get pretty long). Though something else I have noticed too is neglect of regular vehicle maintenance seems to be more common among owners of domestic makes than Toyota owners (especially so when it comes to used vehicle purchases). Why this is I haven't a clue, but indeed it would affect the reliability outcome of any vehicle (I had a friend that bought a used Ford Focus (the limited "Kona" edition that came with the bicycle, though it was missing the bike when he bought it)... never once did he change a damn fluid in that car. Drove it into the ground and then junked it. It was a very nice car that ran well when he bought it).
Looks like you have hurt feelings
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
Frankly, I like the idea of a 2wd E250 Econoline with an E-Locker in the rear axle as a base point for a retiree's (me in three years) "Expedition platform". Lift it 3-4 inches, put some LT295/70R17's underneath and kit out the interior to your liking. Think of it as the "Pre-Runner" van.
PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
03+ Montero is pretty hard to beat
4x4junkie
Explorer
Looks like you have hurt feelings
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Nope. Just a curiosity I haven't figured out is all. Won't bother me a bit if I can never figure it out.
Happykamper
Explorer
Jeep XJ 4.0 automatic , jeep JKU , Toyota Tacoma extra cab , any of these are easy to work on. Plenty of mods available. Inexpensive for maintaining . Tons of fun !
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
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I would amend that to say that the quality of ALL cars and trucks has improved over the past 30 years or so and continues to do so. IOW that "super reliable" Toyota of 1987 would have been considered an unacceptable POS today. Most of us here are probably old enough to remember when Hyundai was a joke on par with Yugo in terms of poor quality and I certainly remember as a GI stationed in Korea smirking at the seemingly appropriate brand name KIA (the US military acronym for "Killed In Action") but look at them today, both are highly respected automakers.
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I think when it comes to "reliability" the real problem is that there is no fixed definition of what "reliability" means, and there's a very significant problem of "confirmation bias", that is, the natural human tendency to make up our minds and THEN seek out data (whether in the form of statistics or anecdotes) that confirms what we want to believe. I think this particularly applies to Toyota (and to a large extent, Subaru) which have both successfully sold themselves as the "Reliable" brand.
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That means that when people buy these vehicles, they tend to do so because they value that nebulous concept of "reliability" and as is true with all people, they are going to look to justify their decision by claiming that their vehicles are reliable, and dismissing any contrary evidence as a statistical outlier. Even their own experiences might be discounted if they feel like they have a vested interest in believing in the "reliability" of their favorite brand.
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My observation has been that on domestic vehicles the things that tend to break or stop working are the "luxuries." On my own '04 Suburban that would be things like the power seat motors or the seat warmers (and IMO seat warmers are like electric blankets - they ought to be considered "expendable" items that need to be replaced every few years anyway because by their very nature they are only going to last a few years.) The engines, transmissions and axles on these vehicles are pretty solid, at least the equal of anything imported, if not more so. When you consider the hard use that full size trucks get in commercial settings, this makes sense (and a commercial buyer doesn't care if the seat warmers quit, because the person in Fleet Management buying the truck is not the crew member who's driving it.)