S
stu454
Guest
I'm about ready to give up on this site.
The trip reports are still useful, at least.
The trip reports are still useful, at least.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
And now.... if all one needs is a steel bumper, with no particular provisions for the jack such as jacking points or holes... how exactly do smooth bottom sliders differ from smooth sills? Body damage notwithstanding.
Scott Brady
Founder
As you know Rob, there is a right way to do something and many wrong ways. Lifting from a door sill with a Hi-Lift would be a wrong way. If you have a Hi-Lift in your vehicle, make sure it is properly stowed, serviceable and that you have appropriate lifting points.
There are many times that a Hi-Lift should not be part of your kit. It is not the best way to change a tire or to winch. Certainly, there are scenarios when a hi-lift is very useful, but it is a "jack" of all trades and a master of none. . .
There are many times that a Hi-Lift should not be part of your kit. It is not the best way to change a tire or to winch. Certainly, there are scenarios when a hi-lift is very useful, but it is a "jack" of all trades and a master of none. . .
really makes me wonder...
...I've witnessed a hole punched in a rover diff 800 miles into baja mexico, no extreme rock crawling, just hauling down a washboard road. took out the axle housing...a simple $75 "piece of bling" would have saved the $1k plus axle housing and the trip.
...I've witnessed a truck slide off a hi-lift more than once (done right and done wrong). Seen it take out rotors when truck and rotor land on the ground because the rocket scientist doin' it didn't throw the tire under the axle as a precaution...seen the aftermath of when the handle snaps back and whacks the operator under the chin. Shattered jaw, teeth, cheekbone a concussion and a helicopter ride later and was luck to be alive...so consider yourself lucky
Sorry it hurts your feelings when something incredible stupid is pointed out but **** like that needs to be addressed. Especially here, where folks come for advice without the attitude of DWEB and other sites.
Great site Scott, keep it up...
...I've witnessed a hole punched in a rover diff 800 miles into baja mexico, no extreme rock crawling, just hauling down a washboard road. took out the axle housing...a simple $75 "piece of bling" would have saved the $1k plus axle housing and the trip.
...I've witnessed a truck slide off a hi-lift more than once (done right and done wrong). Seen it take out rotors when truck and rotor land on the ground because the rocket scientist doin' it didn't throw the tire under the axle as a precaution...seen the aftermath of when the handle snaps back and whacks the operator under the chin. Shattered jaw, teeth, cheekbone a concussion and a helicopter ride later and was luck to be alive...so consider yourself lucky
Sorry it hurts your feelings when something incredible stupid is pointed out but **** like that needs to be addressed. Especially here, where folks come for advice without the attitude of DWEB and other sites.
Great site Scott, keep it up...
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
As if we needed another opinion on sliders...
Put me in the pro-slider group- with a stipulation. I have a set of Ike Goss' sliders on order for the 88, because they add to the body structure and the stock sills would last about 30 minutes on the trails up here.
However, all rocker panel protection is not created equal. I don't know how may tube sliders I've seen flex up into the body, causing more damage than they prevented. I've seen cheap, "cosmetic" panel guards crumple when confronted with an obstacle.
Decent protection has a weight penalty as well. I'm willing to take that penalty, but not everyone wants or needs to. Horses for courses.
As for the HiLift, I've only used mine a handful of times in the last decade. I keep it in working order, but I use conventional jacks and my winch far more often. Still, I carry it because it's a versatile tool when used properly.
It also can be very, very dangerous.
Put me in the pro-slider group- with a stipulation. I have a set of Ike Goss' sliders on order for the 88, because they add to the body structure and the stock sills would last about 30 minutes on the trails up here.
However, all rocker panel protection is not created equal. I don't know how may tube sliders I've seen flex up into the body, causing more damage than they prevented. I've seen cheap, "cosmetic" panel guards crumple when confronted with an obstacle.
Decent protection has a weight penalty as well. I'm willing to take that penalty, but not everyone wants or needs to. Horses for courses.
As for the HiLift, I've only used mine a handful of times in the last decade. I keep it in working order, but I use conventional jacks and my winch far more often. Still, I carry it because it's a versatile tool when used properly.
It also can be very, very dangerous.
JEFFSGTP
Observer
I don't know where this got off on the high lift tangent, but Streets Highlift is maintained, we have a rebuild kit for it as well in the truck, both of which came with the truck. I personally am not a big fan of them as they run a high risk of injuring someone whether used properly or not (albeit improper use of it is just asking for trouble). The last several times we have traveled any distance we have taken a floor jack which would more than suffice for changing a tire or other under vehicle service and is definitely safer. About the only use I can think of us using the highlift would be to winch the truck backwards, but it would be last resort.
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Here Rob how about a nice civil responce
the "body damage notwithstanding" part cant be ignored.
take a look at this pic.
See how far back the sill is from the outer edge of the door. There is really no way to reach all the way under and get the rolled up lip of the nose of the highlift past the back side of the sill. This would then leave the highlift only in contact at the rolled lip and that will cause a slip for sure.
See once again there is internet advice being given on something that really I doubt has been done. Using the high lift like that would destroy the doors. Destroying the doors for a single recovery would just not be worth while IMHO.
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R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
That is good, thank you.
Main reason I'm asking is because I have seen some sliders and some bumpers with a hole or tube welded in to take the nose of a high lift jack. And I've seen many others without. I was planning on making my sliders out of 2x4 (no, not the lumber! ), so that I get the depth of nerf bars, but a cleaner look. Now this makes me wonder, because the 4" wide tube will be too wide for the nose of the jack to get behind the beam anyway.
But then, studying the design of many of the sliders on the market, they don't appear much better. The bottom of the slider tube is welded at the same level as the bottom of the U-channel for most of the length of the slider. The front end of the slider tube is often ABOVE the sill bottom. For example:
The result is, it seems to me, that the Hi-Lift ends up not being able to grasp behind the sill with the raised lip, either. It ends up with the raise lip also being the point of contact. Funny, while I was searching for good clear pictures of the underside of the the RTE, I came across this pic.
(Mid-size)
I tried to crop the full size to show better... but JPEG compression killed me as usual. Anyway, in the full size, it sure looks like the jack is only contacting the reinforced sill by the rolled lip.
Main reason I'm asking is because I have seen some sliders and some bumpers with a hole or tube welded in to take the nose of a high lift jack. And I've seen many others without. I was planning on making my sliders out of 2x4 (no, not the lumber!
), so that I get the depth of nerf bars, but a cleaner look. Now this makes me wonder, because the 4" wide tube will be too wide for the nose of the jack to get behind the beam anyway.But then, studying the design of many of the sliders on the market, they don't appear much better. The bottom of the slider tube is welded at the same level as the bottom of the U-channel for most of the length of the slider. The front end of the slider tube is often ABOVE the sill bottom. For example:
The result is, it seems to me, that the Hi-Lift ends up not being able to grasp behind the sill with the raised lip, either. It ends up with the raise lip also being the point of contact. Funny, while I was searching for good clear pictures of the underside of the the RTE, I came across this pic.
(Mid-size)
I tried to crop the full size to show better... but JPEG compression killed me as usual. Anyway, in the full size, it sure looks like the jack is only contacting the reinforced sill by the rolled lip.
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Z O O R O P A
Explorer
the air jack seems like a better alternative
more costly but less risky
more costly but less risky
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
As long as the airjack doesn't roll over.
That guy appears to be trying to jack a truck, in sand, standing on the downhill side. It doesn't really seem safe no matter how you do it.
That guy appears to be trying to jack a truck, in sand, standing on the downhill side. It doesn't really seem safe no matter how you do it.
thats the same sliders I have (Rovertym) and the lip on the nose is just under the nerf on the slider not under the sill. They actually work very well like that, allthough I dont really use a highlift like that very often at all. I would sooner use that highlift base under a bottle jack to lift the axle alone or just support it and then dig down in the soft sand to gain more clearence.
He also only has a single hand on the handle and is putting his body in the upswinging arc...thats a good photo of what not to do.
Scott Brady
Founder
Ah, Hi-Lift photos. . .
Flip Flops - not a good choice.
Now I have made plenty of mistakes using a Hi-Lift in the past, but in this scenario, a simple bottle jack would be ideal IMO. These coil Rovers require a lot of lift to reach full extension.
I also see the common response in forums "just lash that axle to the frame". This can certainly work, but no one ever does it. Just use a bottle jack.
I do agree that the Hi-Lift becomes a much better choice when the trails get technical, allowing the vehicle to be shifted slightly or raising the frame or skid off a rock, etc.
Flip Flops - not a good choice.
Now I have made plenty of mistakes using a Hi-Lift in the past, but in this scenario, a simple bottle jack would be ideal IMO. These coil Rovers require a lot of lift to reach full extension.
I also see the common response in forums "just lash that axle to the frame". This can certainly work, but no one ever does it. Just use a bottle jack.
I do agree that the Hi-Lift becomes a much better choice when the trails get technical, allowing the vehicle to be shifted slightly or raising the frame or skid off a rock, etc.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
So you are lifting by the nerf, that seems decent. That guy looks like he's not. Sounds like maybe I should put a tube in mine if I'm planning on using 2x4, for one of these.
Well, he's got to stabilize the top of the jack with his other hand.
And yes, I just use the bottle jack.
Well, he's got to stabilize the top of the jack with his other hand.
And yes, I just use the bottle jack.