Diving in Head First!
- Thread starter yabanja
- Start date
mog
Kodiak Buckaroo
Keep that up and you will never want to get rid of the dumpbed :sombrero:
yabanja
Explorer
Decided I needed further baseline info on the suspension so another articulation test is in order. At this point it is 37" tires at 30 psi. Stock suspension except bilstein front shocks. Weight 9000 lbs.
Here are all the details I could gather:
Articulation 19"
LF Tire to bottom of grey trim clearance 7.5"
LF axle on bump stop
LF Shock eye to eye 15"
RF Tire to bottom of grey trim clearance 14"
RF axle to bump stop 3 1/4"
RF Chock eye to eye 20"
LR Tire to bed Clearance 12"
LR axle to bump stop 2 3/4"
LR Shock eye to eye 19"
RR Tire to bed clearance 4 1/4 "
RR axle to bump stop 1/8"
RR Shock eye to eye 16"
Took some time for a weekend trip to Southern Utah in my Jeep XJ this weekend:
Here are all the details I could gather:
Articulation 19"
LF Tire to bottom of grey trim clearance 7.5"
LF axle on bump stop
LF Shock eye to eye 15"
RF Tire to bottom of grey trim clearance 14"
RF axle to bump stop 3 1/4"
RF Chock eye to eye 20"
LR Tire to bed Clearance 12"
LR axle to bump stop 2 3/4"
LR Shock eye to eye 19"
RR Tire to bed clearance 4 1/4 "
RR axle to bump stop 1/8"
RR Shock eye to eye 16"
Took some time for a weekend trip to Southern Utah in my Jeep XJ this weekend:
yabanja
Explorer
The new suspension is coming along
Well, I have been making significant progress on the suspension. I installed new custom front springs with six leaves as well as friction reducing shims between each leaf. This brought the ride height up 3". The vehicle rides vastly better than before with the increased spring rate, suspension travel, and reduced friction in the leaf packs. The damping on the Bilstein 5100 front shocks are woefully inadequate though, although with a 7/8" long spacer in the front they are the perfect size. I am working with Bilstein of North America on some custom valving and perhaps a heavier duty or dual shock setup.
Couldn't find an obstacle large enough to test articulation last weekend but easily drives up onto a 20" ramp.
Did Manage to have some fun at the race track this weekend!
Well, I have been making significant progress on the suspension. I installed new custom front springs with six leaves as well as friction reducing shims between each leaf. This brought the ride height up 3". The vehicle rides vastly better than before with the increased spring rate, suspension travel, and reduced friction in the leaf packs. The damping on the Bilstein 5100 front shocks are woefully inadequate though, although with a 7/8" long spacer in the front they are the perfect size. I am working with Bilstein of North America on some custom valving and perhaps a heavier duty or dual shock setup.
Couldn't find an obstacle large enough to test articulation last weekend but easily drives up onto a 20" ramp.
Did Manage to have some fun at the race track this weekend!
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yabanja
Explorer
Kerry, I built my own spring packs using a the top two leaves of the stock spring pack and the bottom four springs from a 2013 FG. I am very happy with the results. (Thanks to the people at Earthcruiser Oregon for the takeoff springs!). I would have used the new springs in their entirety except they were nearly two inches too short.
Very interesting. Got any pictures of the process and end result? How much travel do you have now? I'm no suspension expert but one of the problems in the OE suspension, if my truck was any indication, is simply a lack of travel which results in abrupt terminations on the hard bump stops. How did you happen to acquire the Earthcruiser take off springs?
yabanja
Explorer
I raised the ride height by 3" so there is now 5" of up travel prior to hitting the bump stops. I was lucky enough to get a set of stock Mitsubishi springs which were removed from a vehicle during the suspension retrofit which is part of the building process at Earthcruiser. If you stop by their facility I would guess they often have them. This job was not for the light hearted. Very labor intensive.
The way I understand it, there are five things which cause the overly harsh ride in these vehicles:
1: Completely inadequate shocks
2: Too soft a spring rate causing the leaves to go flat. Flat leaves go to nearly infinite spring rates as I understand it.(hence the increase from 5 to six leaves to increase spring rates and recover the arch.)
EDIT-I have changed my mind about the spring rates. They are actually much too stiff-I ended up with a 3 leaf high arch front setup in the end
3: inadequate travel. This only comes into effect in really big bumps and is not the primary cause of harshness. You can spend big money on high dollar timbren bump stops but I prefer to keep the suspension off the bump stops altogether by raising the ride height.
4. Excessive friction between the leaves. This causes lack of supple ride in small frequency bumps. Modern spring packs have small tin plates between the leaves at the center point so that they only make contact in the center and at the ends greatly reducing friction.
5. The leaf packs are too short. The longer the leaf the better the ride and articulation. I considered moving the mounting points and having longer springs made which is ultimately the best solution, but chose to see if I could make it work with the existing length.
The ride is still not car like. You know you are in an industrial vehicle, but I am hoping that with proper shocks it can be tamed to the point where I would be comfortable over long distances in rough terrain. (My other car is a 1996 jeep Cherokee sport.- hoping to make the fuso as comfortable as the jeep but it probably isn't going to happen without a coil spring conversion.)
The way I understand it, there are five things which cause the overly harsh ride in these vehicles:
1: Completely inadequate shocks
2: Too soft a spring rate causing the leaves to go flat. Flat leaves go to nearly infinite spring rates as I understand it.(hence the increase from 5 to six leaves to increase spring rates and recover the arch.)
EDIT-I have changed my mind about the spring rates. They are actually much too stiff-I ended up with a 3 leaf high arch front setup in the end
3: inadequate travel. This only comes into effect in really big bumps and is not the primary cause of harshness. You can spend big money on high dollar timbren bump stops but I prefer to keep the suspension off the bump stops altogether by raising the ride height.
4. Excessive friction between the leaves. This causes lack of supple ride in small frequency bumps. Modern spring packs have small tin plates between the leaves at the center point so that they only make contact in the center and at the ends greatly reducing friction.
5. The leaf packs are too short. The longer the leaf the better the ride and articulation. I considered moving the mounting points and having longer springs made which is ultimately the best solution, but chose to see if I could make it work with the existing length.
The ride is still not car like. You know you are in an industrial vehicle, but I am hoping that with proper shocks it can be tamed to the point where I would be comfortable over long distances in rough terrain. (My other car is a 1996 jeep Cherokee sport.- hoping to make the fuso as comfortable as the jeep but it probably isn't going to happen without a coil spring conversion.)
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Some weight on the back will work wonders to smooth out the ride.
yabanja
Explorer
I am at 9k pounds empty with the flatbed and the lift gate..... Filling it with mulch and taking it to the max gvwr of 12k pounds just put it on the bump stops and made it ride horribly.....
westyss
Explorer
I had my suspension redone a while back too and the fellow who did mine lifted it almost three inches but that caused some bump steer and also required that the steering wheel be adjusted, I am surprised at the amount that you lifted yours and wonder if you have any other issues arising like maxing out the prop shaft lengths etc? He also used the main spring leaves and re arched them then added more new ones with non friction plates between leaves, that all works well but a good set of shocks is needed, perhaps some that dont fade out with external res'. I did make the mistake of getting the suspension redone while not loaded for travel so will need to get them adjusted once full up loaded for a trip. At the same time I need to replace the bushings for the leaf packs, they are done and seem like a poor bushing to start with, I am looking at alternate material to make them out of, any one have ideas? Polly something??
yabanja
Explorer
I raised my suspension 3" also. I did install new rubber bushings at the same time(from the takeoff springs-the old ones were horrible with only 50k street miles on them). The steering wheel was off but I haven't noticed any bumpsteer thus far. I will likely install a steering damper next in any case.
What shocks did you settle on? Are you happy with them?
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