Overland Journal Project Land Rover Discovery 4 (LR4)

[mpinco]

My factors were a need for load range E tires, excellent snow performance, increased side wall dimension, while not permanently lifting the vehicle to where it could not enter a standard garage. Adding ground clearance was also a consideration. Thinking a 32" or larger diameter tire requires a permanent lift. At 31.5" or less, your mostly good.

The 2013 Colorado floods highlighted that 19" and 20" wheels are inappropriate. I'm happy with the LR3 18" wheels. Even at 18", selection is somewhat limited for my needs. At 19"/20" it was a joke.

 

[iowalr4]

I think the reason I am not having as much of an issue is just the offset of the compomotives and the shape/size of these tires. They are AT, but are not nearly as aggressive as a lot of the others used here. You can see by the profile that they don't have straight vertical sidewalls all the way to the tread, they curve in more like normal road tires. I would guess that is why I am not having issues.

I would go and take pictures and do more scientific work on this for you all, but its still -5 before windchill here.

 

[mpinco]

In general you will find that 18" LT / load range E tires start at mostly 32" diameter and larger, requiring Johnson Rods/permanent lift. General Tire offers the 285/60-18 AT2 at 31" OD while Cooper's A/T3 18" LT's start at 275/65, which is 32.1" OD, and larger. Once you sort out that first set of criteria, then all the others come into play.

Thinking LT tire selection is driven by full size trucks that have much larger wheel openings than Land Rover.

The range below 31" is dominated by P-rated; (Tire Rack - "cars, minivans, sport utility vehicles and light duty pickup trucks (typically 1/4- and 1/2-ton load capacity").

The LR4 is NOT a light vehicle, weighing in at ~5800lbs by itself. I initially had P-rated tires on the LR4. I could feel the rear end squirm towing a 19' camper as sidewalls flexed. Now think about loading up a LR4 for a long weekend/overland trip.

 

[roverandom]

So after chewing through all 71 pages of this thread I've learned two things.

1, Regardless of how interesting it starts out any LR3/LR4 thread can get hijacked by guys that want to talk tyres....yawn.

2, Like all initially interesting LR3/4 threads, big promises on breakthrough tech fades to vague "hints" that is very annoying if not followed up on or it simply vanishes in a cloud of predictable bolt on mod$.

Sorry that my first post here is so negative but dang. The two most interesting items in thread were the failsafe bumpstop plan that got shelved and the ARB lockers that all we got to see was a stock looking front diff with an air line sticking out and a row of three carling switches? I'm good to go with tyre, wheel and spacer info for the moment though, thanks!

Can we get back on track? How about some more on the ARB's please?

I do have a question for the OP who hopefully is not too PO'ed at me for my above comments?

I have over 270,000 on my 06 LR3 HSE and have been confronted with numerous EAS problems that have led me to replace the system with a coil spring retrofit. Now, I don't want to do my own hijack all about my vehicle but I am wondering if this was an option you have considered for your OJ LR4?

 

[Ray_G]

I have over 270,000 on my 06 LR3 HSE and have been confronted with numerous EAS problems that have led me to replace the system with a coil spring retrofit. Now, I don't want to do my own hijack all about my vehicle but I am wondering if this was an option you have considered for your OJ LR4?

As to not continue the hijack, mind posting some follow up to your retrofit as a distinct thread? I think that would be an interesting thing to document, not just what I imagine is the somewhat mundane technical aspects of the physical change but also what did you do electronically?
r-
Ray

 

[axels]

It is very true that I among others hijacked the thread. It did see like an easy way to get answers.

 

[roverandom]

As to not continue the hijack, mind posting some follow up to your retrofit as a distinct thread? I think that would be an interesting thing to document, not just what I imagine is the somewhat mundane technical aspects of the physical change but also what did you do electronically?
r-
Ray

OK. I will start a thread.

 

[Eniam17]

I am guilty of continuing the lift/tire discussion in this thread and I apologize to the OP. This started as an interesting thread by Scott and it's helped a lot of people learn a lot about the great platform of the lr4. I don't think anyone meant to hijack, but learn from those with more experience.

 

[roverandom]

Actually, I should be the one apologizing. Tyre fitment and type is always a hot issue and when a thread gets to be this long some stuff is bound to be repeated.......or need to be repeated. I didn't mean to come across all Dweb on you guys, Sorry.

But lets hear some more about that ARB locker?

 

[mpinco]

Ah, this thread wasn't hijacked for "tyres". It was the logical conclusion of a series of decisions captured in the thread.

- Begin with a stock LR4, non-HD, 20" wheels and orientated toward the SUV customer. Transform it to a off-road vehicle capable of managing 7000lbs and surviving off-road
- Add front and rear protection
- Highlight that 20" wheels/tires are inappropriate
- Attempt to accomodate 18" wheels, offer a solution withh 30mm spacers
- Move to 18" wheels and LT rated tires
- Introduce ECU tools to manage vehicle height
- Highlight that modifications were intended to minimize vehicle impact on environment
- Highlight that lockers are becoming an outdated technology as latest TC management and appropriate modifications address 90%+ of encountered conditions, maybe 99%?
- END with tyre selection as a result of choices

The only item not addressed is bump stops for total system failure. That said, current tools allow a majority of issues to be addressed. Again, once all the previous features are added, that really is last.

 

[roverandom]

Why are lockers outdated? TC is great if you have no idea how to drive off road and can get a novice driver into all sorts of remote areas. But if you do have experience it can be a real pain. It's a loooooooong way away from being able to address 90% of off road challenges. The best mod I could think of for the LR traction control would be an "off" button you could use when you would like 100% control of your own vehicle.

If you want to minimize the vehicles environmental impact, leave it alone and stop modifying it.

 

[mpinco]

Why are lockers outdated? TC is great if you have no idea how to drive off road and can get a novice driver into all sorts of remote areas. But if you do have experience it can be a real pain. It's a loooooooong way away from being able to address 90% of off road challenges. The best mod I could think of for the LR traction control would be an "off" button you could use when you would like 100% control of your own vehicle.

If you want to minimize the vehicles environmental impact, leave it alone and stop modifying it.

I've off-roaded for years in Colorado with open diffs. From Jeep J10's to Scouts to Disco/RRC's. Today's TC is significantly better than early algorithms. The trajectory of TC capability will marginalize lockers.

As Scott pointed out the LR4 modifications resulted in less wheel spin and the goal of reducing stress on the vehicle. Example - the best off road performance I witnessed is a Jeep J20 with factory optional soft suspension, quadratrac and a big 440 V8 engine. 100% stock except for tyres. Walked right up a moguled hill that all the modified vehicles stuggled with. Why? Because they went with lift kits, replacement suspension and in the end no articulation.

Which, if you replace the air suspension, will result in less articulation.

 

[roverandom]

Actually, I have replaced the air suspension. I've wheeled it both ways and done a direct back to back comparison, and there is little to no difference. It's not like the LR3/4 is blessed with a massive amount of articulation anyway.

As far as TC replacing lockers, that is subjective but in the context of expeditions, it's most likely all you would need because serious trails are no on the average menu. But don't confuse that with hard, technical off roading. It's true lockers can require the upgrading of stock components due to adding extra stress but if you get a TC equipped vehicle into some serious terrain it also takes it's toll on the vehicle. It's easier than you think to start cooking brake fluid.

But I'm old skool.........about almost everything. So old skool in fact I'm still unconvinced about coil springs on utility Land Rovers (and didn't they call it a Series IV?) and ditched the EFI on my RRC so I could run a carb. The only reason we have an LR3 is for the wife and kids.......if it was my call we would head out in a Series One.

 

[epiccosmo]

As far as TC replacing lockers, that is subjective but in the context of expeditions, it's most likely all you would need because serious trails are no on the average menu. But don't confuse that with hard, technical off roading. It's true lockers can require the upgrading of stock components due to adding extra stress but if you get a TC equipped vehicle into some serious terrain it also takes it's toll on the vehicle. It's easier than you think to start cooking brake fluid.

I think this is a great call out around the brake fluid issue. I am new to the LR4 platform but come from sports cars and Jeeps. Being that I have not researched this because I hadn't thought about it.

Has anyone done an upgrade to Stainless Steel lines with a higher temp fluid in these vehicles?

 

[Scott Brady]

Can we get back on track? How about some more on the ARB's please?

I do have a question for the OP who hopefully is not too PO'ed at me for my above comments?

I have over 270,000 on my 06 LR3 HSE and have been confronted with numerous EAS problems that have led me to replace the system with a coil spring retrofit. Now, I don't want to do my own hijack all about my vehicle but I am wondering if this was an option you have considered for your OJ LR4?

I have been traveling for half the year, and am even now still in Africa. The project was just slowed down, along with the updates. Look for more on our LR4 in the next few months.