INEOS Grenadier

[SkiWill]

I do agree with you; for the 1-2% planning RTW travel, get an LC70 (or a W460 300GD w/ very simple and robust OM617 like my first--although it'll provide even more of a "scenic touring, Driving Miss Daisy" experience than the LC70 will) and enjoy the simplicity....

(CUT)

I would again suggest a W460 G-Wagen ('79 - ~'92), like the 300GD. Super simple and basic OM617 3.0L I-5 NA engine proven at over 1M miles, ladder frame, solid axles, rear and often front hydraulic (slave cyl) diff locks.
Are the early W463 300GD's like the OM603(mechanical ink pump) a bit more modern and comfy, less snoozy to drive? Yes. But also gets into Mercedes' idiotic electronic(switch)->pneumatic(vacuum lines)->hydraulic(slave cyl at each axle) triple diff locks....

(CUT)

An excellent point here, and something I don't always consider enough; For someone who has $75k to spend on a rig, looking at a new IG at $75k let's say, vs a $15k used but well-maintained Euro vehicle, like a 2007 Cayenne(coil susp) or 2006 LR3(air susp but converted to coil susp, in order to rule out air susp issues, which BTW are far worse on Rovers/Mercedes/early Audis like C5 allroads) than Cayennes due to Porsche's aluminum protection of the air bag bladder itself). That nets a $60,000 fund for any small deferred maintenance to get the vehicle up to snuff, a huge relief fund for future maintenance, and also $$ for excursions.

PS--that being said, shameless plug, if anyone is looking for such rigs, my 2006 RRS S/C is up for sale($$$$ already spent on deferred maint, ARB bumper/lights, Lucky8 SuspSpacersInCaseAirSuspFails, Compomotive wheels, etc), as well as my 2012 CayenneTurbo. Yes, early reservation in for an IG--business decision.
And yes, being surrounded by some of my best friends deeply involved in the Cruiser world, I've toyed with switching teams many times. HUGE respect for the capabilities of FZJ80's with simple mods, huge love of what the xxJ7x Troopies represent (like a G Kastenwagen). Still can't do it; for the love of Euro!

Ah yes the 300GD, my ideal vehicle but wife wouldn't go for it. Her idea of safety features and comfort leans more towards the LC200 end of the spectrum.

Thanks. Occasionally, I do come up with a good idea from time to time for being a Land Rover driver. Interesting perspective on Porsche being the most reliable. I may keep that in mind for the future, however I do "need" at least one vehicle with Land Rover/Land Cruiser/Jeep like 4x4 capability and Porsche hasn't put a low range transfer case in for years.

 

[DoKarider16]

It is commendable that they tried this massive experiment, it is not surprising they have not met price and timeframe goals. It would be awesome if one of the big players would take the IG design brief and make a go of it. Something like the most reliable, repairable Isuzu Trooper (early gen of course) type vehicle and try for as close to $30,000 as possible. Can’t imagine being able to nail anything under 40k realistically.

It will be really interesting to see how this plays out over the years.

SkiWill, keep an open mind on the dual range transfer case. The newer Sprinters lost the dual range transfer case but I have read that the gear ratio in the 8speed auto is actually lower than in low range of old. Kind of like 1x12 mountain bike drive trains.

These IG’s will sell. How pertinent they are for true world travel will take years to discover.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

30k? I think the 80k estimate is laughable- no way these sell for less than 6 figures

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Yah, I bet Ford wishes they had done that for the new Bronco... oh wait, nevermind

https://www.motor1.com/news/440652/2021-ford-bronco-color-cans/

Imitation is the greatest compliment or something, I suppose - kind of sums up this whole project! Full credit to Ford's marketing team for the original idea!

I would again suggest a W460 G-Wagen ('79 - ~'92), like the 300GD. Super simple and basic OM617 3.0L I-5 NA engine proven at over 1M miles, ladder frame, solid axles, rear and often front hydraulic (slave cyl) diff locks.
Are the early W463 300GD's like the OM603(mechanical ink pump) a bit more modern and comfy, less snoozy to drive? Yes. But also gets into Mercedes' idiotic electronic(switch)->pneumatic(vacuum lines)->hydraulic(slave cyl at each axle) triple diff locks.

I have been keeping a passive eye on the used market for the W460s and learning a bit more about them! I've still been waiting to see how this Grenadier shapes out as I've got time (I won't be leaving for a few years yet) but you are quite right it hits a lot of boxes.

Craig, this is true about the Euro aftermarket (actually I just sent an email this week to PCA(Porsche) NA about recent misinformation about this same subject, as posted by their Technical Committee in a recent Panorama issue). Quick skinny is that;
-Porsche sends out RFQ’s to the OEM manufacturers (e.g. Bosch, Beru, Pagid, etc) to decide who produces their Porsche “dealership” parts. In other words, Porsche might currently have a contract with Bosch for spark plugs, but once that contract runs out, Porsche might choose Beru next for spark plugs.
-Parts (e.g. Bosch, Beru, Pagid, etc) have the manufacturer’s logo on them, regardless of how they are later packaged/sold; parts either get packaged in a “OEM” manufacturer (e.g. Bosch, Beru Pagid, etc) box and sold in the aftermarket, or they also get a Porsche/VW/Audi/etc logo stamped on them and get packaged in a “dealership” (i.e. Porsche branded) box and sold at a Porsche dealership.
-As long as the initial fitment-cross was completed correctly (e.g. a 955 Cayenne Base (VR6) and Touareg1 (VR6) will use the same spark plugs since they’re sharing engines), the same manufacturer part number (i.e. Bosch spark plug part #) is being sent out regardless of whether it is in the Bosch box and sold at PelicanParts/RockAuto/SSF/IMC/WP/etc, or it is in a Porsche “dealership” box and sold at a dealership. In other words, for a 955 Cayenne Base application, a Bosch spark plug in a Bosch box will be the same Bosch spark plug that is in a Porsche branded box. There is no difference in parts quality.

So....what this means is that when a spark plug eventually fails on a new IG, it'll have an IG part # in the IG parts catalog. It'll also have a Bosch or Beru or NGK # "printed" on it. Call an IG dealer for the plug price; $28.50/ea let's say. Search the Bosch or Beru or NGK # at one of the aftermarket parts warehouses (note that many of these online outfits direct drop ship from a larger W/D, so some of the online places are just a middleman movers with NO warehouse/brick&mortar overhead....grrrr...off soapbox) and they whore out part prices, so the same spark plug might be $19/ea from them. Same plug, just one is an IG-branded parts box with IG stamp, other is direct from the actual parts mfr (Bosch or Beru or NGK).




I'm gathering more info from our ex-dealership/factory-trained/BMW Master techs, but so far, one of them had this response to above info;
Overall for BMWs, yes, these are issues that have frustrated us over the past almost 20yrs with modern BMWs. However, specifically regarding the B58, these same issues haven't been really problematic yet and that includes friends still at BMW. The B58 engine has proven itself to be reliable thus far-vehicles seen getting up to 80k.

That's good to know - and thanks for sharing a bit more about how that all works! These days, I imagine it'll be even easier to search interchanges with online databases, and with the enthusiast community the Gren is likely to attract there'll be no shortage of interchange info. It gives me hope to know it's a standard practice; perhaps parts an be had for fairly affordable prices after all.

That's a lot of hope. I believe according to MT https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-ineos-grenadier-first-drive-review/ it will start at over $70,000 USD and prices have only been heading in one direction lately, and that's up. I don't think one of these will get out the door in the US for less than $80k with any options or accessories whatsoever.

That said, given the prices of rickety old Land Rover Defenders and 110s which are basically "100 loose rivets flying in close formation" (one of the most humorous things ASPW ever said though he was referencing RRC) I'm sure they'll sell every one that they can actually get built and imported into the US. Just not to me...

It's likely way too much hope, Will, but I'll treat it like a lottery ticket - I'm really buying into the fantasy, not the reality that those numbers will come true

"100 loose rivets in close formation" is very funny, I'll remember that one. But yeah you are spot on - if the Defenders cost what they are "worth" (i.e. what a person ought to expect to pay for a 20-30 year old 4x4 wagon of that....uh...comfort level) I'd be driving one of them and have a spare in the driveway and probably have enough cash left over to get halfway around the world as compared to buying a Grenadier new. But decent (i.e mechanically "turn key") ones in Canada are routinely go for north of $100k, which is hard to justify.

My number 1 choice is the Gren for my trip. Number 2 would be if I got lucky and found a Gwagen or 70-series Land Cruiser in good shape used. Number 3 is actually the New Defender despite my unkindness (but not untrue) comparisons earlier - I do love them, and would just have to mitigate the risk of breakdown a lot differently, but that's why I want to get the platform a bit before I leave for the trip - I want to know it inside and outside and giving it a few years' worth of domestic "shakedown" trips ought to do it.

 

[nickw]

You are correct, my mistake for not being clearer.
I believe the IG is using the 8HP70 vs the 8HP75; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission
Unsure why you think it'd be the 8HP51 from the 3Series/Supra.
I will confirm...

And a modern Defender is more reliable than an IG might be? ROFLMAO! Umm, no. Just the # of ECM's = badnewsbears. Heck, the sweet spot of modern Rovers ('05-09) has enough quirks on their own that can disable a vehicle (well, until you cycle the key at once and then poof, issue fixed! WTH...)...a '10+ gets even more complicated, then come timing chain related issues. Would have to count the # of '03+ Rovers having come thru, but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds (yes, BMWs too--but much more reliable than Rovers).

Definitely unfair IMHO to put X3 and Cayenne/Treg in the same sentence about reliability/longevity. All gens of X3 are so much more frail than the 955/957/958/9Y0 Cayenne or Treg 1/2/3. Cay/Treg's are seriously overbuilt; X3 is not. Of all 8 Euro's (Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Mercedes+Sprinter, MINI, Porsche, VW) our teams including ex-dealership/factory-trained/Master technicians focus on, Porsche is BY FAR THE MOST RELIABLE marque overall (especially Cayenne, 911, Boxster/Cayman).
Thankfully the SUV's depreciate like rocks for the most part, so would I drive a well-maintained '08 Cayenne Base (VW VR6 NA) farther into the backcountry than a slightly used modern D110, or even my 2006 Rover Sport S/C (Jag 4.2L engine). Oh heck yeah. I'd even drive it farther than my '03 G500. YMMV.
B58 feedback from our teams as well as dealership friends in my 2nd post below...

According to the wiki page, for what it's worth:

Ineos Grenadier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Both engines come mated to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission (codenamed 8HP51 for the petrol, 8HP76 for the diesel"

I think a modern Defender has a good chance of being every bit as reliable and generally much more serviceable. The unknown factor is how well IG pulled off using that BMW engine - it's not like they have a 50+ year history, no car manuf. I know of got it right out of the gate.

A bit unfair - but folks tour the world in Mercedes sedans vs Gwagens and VW busses. As long as you didn't overload a X3 (per my comment) it should be 95% as reliable, right?

 

[Paddler Ed]

Some interesting bits from Autocar on the potential expansion of the Ineos range (which it will need to do to bring down the fleet average fuel usage)

Ineos selects Magna to build small electric 4x4 from 2026 | Autocar

Defender-rivalling electric off-roader is first in an ambitious expansion strategy for Ineos Automotive

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[SkiWill]

Some interesting bits from Autocar on the potential expansion of the Ineos range (which it will need to do to bring down the fleet average fuel usage)

Ineos selects Magna to build small electric 4x4 from 2026 | Autocar

Defender-rivalling electric off-roader is first in an ambitious expansion strategy for Ineos Automotive

www.autocar.co.uk

Ah yes, and the full bling G-class variant is in the works too according to the same article. Here come the Kardashians! Can't wait to start dodging them in Park City.

SkiWill, keep an open mind on the dual range transfer case. The newer Sprinters lost the dual range transfer case but I have read that the gear ratio in the 8speed auto is actually lower than in low range of old. Kind of like 1x12 mountain bike drive trains.

These IG’s will sell. How pertinent they are for true world travel will take years to discover.

I drove my wife's former diesel ML350 to places where plenty of transfer case equipped 4x4s parked or turned around, so I know that off beat off roaders can be capable, but I'm aware of their limitations as well. I have an open minded, but bounded by reality. The ML350 diesel was surprisingly capable but still wasn't capable enough of my needs nor is a Sprinter van for that matter.

My number 1 choice is the Gren for my trip. Number 2 would be if I got lucky and found a Gwagen or 70-series Land Cruiser in good shape used. Number 3 is actually the New Defender despite my unkindness (but not untrue) comparisons earlier - I do love them, and would just have to mitigate the risk of breakdown a lot differently, but that's why I want to get the platform a bit before I leave for the trip - I want to know it inside and outside and giving it a few years' worth of domestic "shakedown" trips ought to do it.

I generally agree with most of those options as well as the ridiculous price for old Defenders. However for global travel the IG wouldn't be up there for me until we see 5 years of them out in different markets. One that I would add to your list is the Land Cruiser Prado is likely coming back to NA as the Land Cruiser in a couple of years. It will likely be much more fuel efficient and tick off all of the other boxes since it will be built on a global Toyota platform as well. Since I don't need anything new in the next few years I'm going to wait to see what happens with the Prado, IG, and New Defender in the US before putting down any money.

 

[nickw]

Ah yes, and the full bling G-class variant is in the works too according to the same article. Here come the Kardashians! Can't wait to start dodging them in Park City.



I drove my wife's former diesel ML350 to places where plenty of transfer case equipped 4x4s parked or turned around, so I know that off beat off roaders can be capable, but I'm aware of their limitations as well. I have an open minded, but bounded by reality. The ML350 diesel was surprisingly capable but still wasn't capable enough of my needs nor is a Sprinter van for that matter.



I generally agree with most of those options as well as the ridiculous price for old Defenders. However for global travel the IG wouldn't be up there for me until we see 5 years of them out in different markets. One that I would add to your list is the Land Cruiser Prado is likely coming back to NA as the Land Cruiser in a couple of years. It will likely be much more fuel efficient and tick off all of the other boxes since it will be built on a global Toyota platform as well. Since I don't need anything new in the next few years I'm going to wait to see what happens with the Prado, IG, and New Defender in the US before putting down any money.

What's wrong with the current Prado from Lexus in their GX? It's a "global" platform, if not for the engine / body, but well sorted and robust with an extensive track record for being very reliable.....

 

[utherjorge]

Yep, and that's why I chose the GX I have...for those reasons. I am under the impression that the Prado platform is very well regarded.

 

[SkiWill]

What's wrong with the current Prado from Lexus in their GX? It's a "global" platform, if not for the engine / body, but well sorted and robust with an extensive track record for being very reliable.....

Not much other than a relatively small fuel tank and thirsty V8 requiring premium gasoline which describes my LR4 as well. The grill certainly doesn't win it any points either. The current GX is NA spec does have fuel system and emissions differences compared to ROW just like the LR4 as well from what I understand of those trying to add Prado auxiliary fuel tanks to a GX or Australian tanks to an LR4.

I'd rather have the next generation Toyota and not Lexus version which will undoubtedly be much more fuel efficient and run on regular rather than premium. I also can't get 3 car seats arranged the way I want in a current GX, so that's another deal killer for me, but not many others. But the GX is definitely a fine choice for many.

That's another thing about the IG that bugs me. My 2012 LR4 with a 5.0 V8 is rated at 13/17 mpg. The IG will be rated 14/18 mpg in petrol version. Current GX is 14/19 mpg. For me, I want to go further on a tank of fuel. That's not necessarily as much a priority of others though.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I generally agree with most of those options as well as the ridiculous price for old Defenders. However for global travel the IG wouldn't be up there for me until we see 5 years of them out in different markets. One that I would add to your list is the Land Cruiser Prado is likely coming back to NA as the Land Cruiser in a couple of years. It will likely be much more fuel efficient and tick off all of the other boxes since it will be built on a global Toyota platform as well. Since I don't need anything new in the next few years I'm going to wait to see what happens with the Prado, IG, and New Defender in the US before putting down any money.

That's my perspective exactly - getting in "on the ground floor" gives me time with the vehicle to get to know it and the suitability of the platform for RTW travel, and while my timeline is slightly shorter (4 years) it's a risk I'm willing to take as financially (depending on the price announcements), all of my options are in the same financial ballpark, give or take a few thousand bucks, by the time it's "ready to go".

I'll keep an eye on the PRado too - it's a bit more compact as far as I know than what I'm hoping for. The Gren appears to be a happy medium in terms of interior space/capacity and footprint/exterior envelope.

 

[nickw]

Not much other than a relatively small fuel tank and thirsty V8 requiring premium gasoline which describes my LR4 as well. The grill certainly doesn't win it any points either. The current GX is NA spec does have fuel system and emissions differences compared to ROW just like the LR4 as well from what I understand of those trying to add Prado auxiliary fuel tanks to a GX or Australian tanks to an LR4.

I'd rather have the next generation Toyota and not Lexus version which will undoubtedly be much more fuel efficient and run on regular rather than premium. I also can't get 3 car seats arranged the way I want in a current GX, so that's another deal killer for me, but not many others. But the GX is definitely a fine choice for many.

That's another thing about the IG that bugs me. My 2012 LR4 with a 5.0 V8 is rated at 13/17 mpg. The IG will be rated 14/18 mpg in petrol version. Current GX is 14/19 mpg. For me, I want to go further on a tank of fuel. That's not necessarily as much a priority of others though.

It just often gets overlooked, maybe due to it's looks (I agree), but it's a very well sorted platform with a reasonably simple engine. Fuel tank wise they are not even a gallon different with the IG being 23.8 vs GX at 23.

Lets be honest, take the modern GX chassis and put a Gren body or other utilitarian body, they'd sell every single one for $100k.

 

[mk216v]

Ah yes the 300GD, my ideal vehicle but wife wouldn't go for it. Her idea of safety features and comfort leans more towards the LC200 end of the spectrum.

Thanks. Occasionally, I do come up with a good idea from time to time for being a Land Rover driver. Interesting perspective on Porsche being the most reliable. I may keep that in mind for the future, however I do "need" at least one vehicle with Land Rover/Land Cruiser/Jeep like 4x4 capability and Porsche hasn't put a low range transfer case in for years.

300GD is definitely a RTW rig, but I agree with your wife in regards to comfort. The 300GD isn't horrible, but it's 80s spartan comfort.

2007-2010 957 chassis Cayenne; low-range t-case, center diff lock standard. Can retrofit the rear with OEM or aftermarket e-locker. There's also an e-locker available for the front. Find a base VR6 model w/ coil susp and SUPER reliable (as long as it's been maintained like anything of course).


@nickw, you were correct with the 8HP51. I am very surprised by this. I was certain it'd be coming with the 8HP70 at least, due to other SUV's like X5/RRS/JGC and larger sedans that have the 8HP70. Heck, even the Audi A4 has a larger tranny (8HP55), and it's a street car that weighs less and will not typically be put under as severe duty as an IG might! WTH Magna?!?! ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

8HP51 (3rd Generation)	500 N⋅m (370 lb⋅ft)	500 N⋅m (370 lb⋅ft)	5th Generation Toyota Supra (A90), BMW 3 Series (G20), BMW 2 Series (G42), Jaguar XE 20d RWD (2019–), BMW Z4 (G29)
8HP55	550 N⋅m (410 lb⋅ft)	550 N⋅m (410 lb⋅ft)	Audi S4/S5 (B9), Audi A4 B8 2012– North America (US)
8HP70	700 N⋅m (520 lb⋅ft)	700 N⋅m (520 lb⋅ft)	BMW 7 Series (F01/F02), BMW X5 50i (E70), BMW 5 series (F10/11), BMW 3 Series (F30) 330d and 335d, Chrysler 300 V8 (2015–), Dodge Durango V8, Iveco Daily, Jaguar F-Type (V6 and V8), Jaguar XE 35t, Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L 8-cyl Engine Code [T] EZH (2014 -), Jeep Grand Cherokee 6.4L 8-cyl Engine Code [J] ESG (2014 -), Jeep Grand Cherokee V8, Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel (2014–2016), Ram 1500 V6, V8, & diesel, Range Rover Sport (2012), Rolls-Royce Phantom, Maserati Quattroporte (2013–), Dodge Charger V8 (2015–), Volkswagen Amarok V6 TDI 550, Dodge Challenger V8 (2015–), Aston Martin Vanquish (2015), Aston Martin Rapide S (2015),[17] Alpina B3 (F30/31), Alpina B4 (F32/33), Great Wall Haval H9, VW Crafter (longitudinal engine), MAN TGE (longitudinal engine)
8HP75 (2nd Generation)	750 N⋅m (550 lb⋅ft)	750 N⋅m (550 lb⋅ft)	Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio, Aston Martin DB11, Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2019), Alpina B5 (G30/31), BMW 5 series (G30/G31/F90), BMW X5 M (F85), BMW X6 M (F86), BMW 7 Series (G11/12),[18] BMW X5 (F15),[19] BMW X3 30D (G01), RAM 1500 (2019–), RAM 2500 (2019–), Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel (2017–), Jeep Wrangler EcoDiesel (2020–), Jeep Gladiator Ecodiesel (2021–), Jeep Wrangler 392 (2021–)
8HP76			Alpina B7 (G11/12),[20] BMW 3 Series M340dX (G20/21)

SkiWill, keep an open mind on the dual range transfer case. The newer Sprinters lost the dual range transfer case but I have read that the gear ratio in the 8speed auto is actually lower than in low range of old. Kind of like 1x12 mountain bike drive trains.

Yes, '15-22 Sprinter 4WD's (722.6 5spd tranny) were RWD with a t-case and 4Hi button...then also a LowRange (4Lo) button. No locking hubs or anything.
'23+ AWD (722.9 7spd tranny) are 4Matic full-time AWD and no buttons to press.

I have been keeping a passive eye on the used market for the W460s and learning a bit more about them! I've still been waiting to see how this Grenadier shapes out as I've got time (I won't be leaving for a few years yet) but you are quite right it hits a lot of boxes.

That's good to know - and thanks for sharing a bit more about how that all works! These days, I imagine it'll be even easier to search interchanges with online databases, and with the enthusiast community the Gren is likely to attract there'll be no shortage of interchange info. It gives me hope to know it's a standard practice; perhaps parts an be had for fairly affordable prices after all.

"100 loose rivets in close formation" is very funny, I'll remember that one. But yeah you are spot on - if the Defenders cost what they are "worth" (i.e. what a person ought to expect to pay for a 20-30 year old 4x4 wagon of that....uh...comfort level) I'd be driving one of them and have a spare in the driveway and probably have enough cash left over to get halfway around the world as compared to buying a Grenadier new. But decent (i.e mechanically "turn key") ones in Canada are routinely go for north of $100k, which is hard to justify.

My number 1 choice is the Gren for my trip. Number 2 would be if I got lucky and found a Gwagen or 70-series Land Cruiser in good shape used. Number 3 is actually the New Defender despite my unkindness (but not untrue) comparisons earlier - I do love them, and would just have to mitigate the risk of breakdown a lot differently, but that's why I want to get the platform a bit before I leave for the trip - I want to know it inside and outside and giving it a few years' worth of domestic "shakedown" trips ought to do it.

Finding a rust free W460 is kind of like winning the lottery, so buy a few tickets.

YW on the parts crossover stuff.

OMGah I can't believe the early Defender prices. Every few weeks a new restoration shop. Some look horrible, some are horrible. Besides them appearing to go on safari at any minute, I don't get the appeal for $100k-$250k (Ok, Heritage Driven green or rust colored machines with serious susp and portals--different story).

I think a modern Defender has a good chance of being every bit as reliable and generally much more serviceable. The unknown factor is how well IG pulled off using that BMW engine - it's not like they have a 50+ year history, no car manuf. I know of got it right out of the gate.

A bit unfair - but folks tour the world in Mercedes sedans vs Gwagens and VW busses. As long as you didn't overload a X3 (per my comment) it should be 95% as reliable, right?

New/modern Defender already has too many control modules IMHO; issue #1 off the bat.

X3's; notorious for t-case failures, common BMW issues of those eras (coolant related, oil leaks, etc).


So to the B58 concerns with the Grenadier; I quizzed 3 of our factory-trained/ex-dealership and Master BMW techs. All the issues/concerns that came up were;
-early B58 had an expansion hose from the cyl head breaking constantly, until it was changed to a soft line
-we're starting to see more heat management modules fail. That is what they call a thermostat now (no physical thermostat)
-other than that, at this time we would buy a B58 over an N55 any day of the week

 

[utherjorge]

Not much other than a relatively small fuel tank and thirsty V8 requiring premium gasoline which describes my LR4 as well.

This is occasionally a topic of discussion...but the same motor in other Toyota vehicles in the same spec/guise does not. I do not run premium and it is about 100% certain you don't need to.

The grill certainly doesn't win it any points either.

Well....yes. Lots to trim with aftermarket bumpers on the last years of the GX. Assuming you can find one you like, but they are out there.

....as well from what I understand of those trying to add Prado auxiliary fuel tanks to a GX...

Long Range would be the way to go to add tanks to the GX as long as you delete the rear spare in a way you prefer.

I'd rather have the next generation Toyota and not Lexus version which will undoubtedly be much more fuel efficient and run on regular rather than premium.

Well, I actually expect the opposite, with a turbo 6 instead of the eight. If that's the case, the last year of the existing GX will likely sell very well. Does Toyota's turbo for in NA-spec need premium?

That's another thing about the IG that bugs me. My 2012 LR4 with a 5.0 V8 is rated at 13/17 mpg. The IG will be rated 14/18 mpg in petrol version. Current GX is 14/19 mpg.

But, where? None of these will get anything close to that if you're off tarmac.

 

[nickw]

@nickw, you were correct with the 8HP51. I am very surprised by this. I was certain it'd be coming with the 8HP70 at least, due to other SUV's like X5/RRS/JGC and larger sedans that have the 8HP70. Heck, even the Audi A4 has a larger tranny (8HP55), and it's a street car that weighs less and will not typically be put under as severe duty as an IG might! WTH Magna?!?! ;

So to the B58 concerns with the Grenadier; I quizzed 3 of our factory-trained/ex-dealership and Master BMW techs. All the issues/concerns that came up were;
-early B58 had an expansion hose from the cyl head breaking constantly, until it was changed to a soft line
-we're starting to see more heat management modules fail. That is what they call a thermostat now (no physical thermostat)
-other than that, at this time we would buy a B58 over an N55 any day of the week

Like I said, we've had 2 BMW's (X5D and a X5) ZERO issues, great cars beyond a few stupid little annoyances. We've also owned 2 Audis (Allroad and a SQ5) and a VW (Sportwagen Diesel w/6 spd manual), zero issues, great cars. I don't doubt the B58 is a great engine given the context of sports car / small SUV, I question it's useful life and practicality in a rig people are taking into the middle of nowhere, hence my X3 being an expedition vehicle comment.

There is no world where I live in where a car / trans developed for a small car gets instant "expo" cred for being put in a expo platform. Not saying it won't or can't work, but IG needs to prove that to us. What changes were made, how does a small transmission deal with a rig that is 2x the weight of the original vehicle, what sort of workaround are available for parts that are not easily replaced, how will this setup work in 4 low for hours on end, what was durability testing like, how did the components do? I think we need DATA.....making something work because that is what you have is very different that using the best component for the job, feels like the former to me.

One thing I think we all agree on is it's not 'overbuilt', but may be satisfactory for it's intended purpose.

Still think this was their best solution, at least for NA, ready to drop in as is